Hops for saison/farmhouse

[Pogierob]

Bought a saison yeast wpl568 today,

Thought I'd give a Saison a go but wanted to go with what I have in stock.

can anyone see any major issues with below?



Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 21.00 l
Boil Size: 29.81 l
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 24.96 l
Final Bottling Vol: 19.60 l
Fermentation: Saison
Date: 18 Jul 2014
Brewer: Rob
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: BIAB
Efficiency: 82.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 93.7 %
Taste Rating: 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5.50 kg Joe White traditional ale (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 91.7 %
0.50 kg Joe white wheat malt (3.5 EBC) Grain 2 8.3 %
60.00 g Styrian Goldings old batch [2.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 3 11.0 IBUs
50.00 g Styrian Goldings old batch [2.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 4 5.5 IBUs
10.00 g Aussie cascade [7.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 5 4.6 IBUs
1.0 pkg Belgian Style Saison Ale Yeast Blend (White Labs #WLP568) [50.28 ml] Yeast
6 - 15.00 g Aussie cascade [7.50 %] - Dry Hop 0.0 Days Hop 7 0.0 IBUs
Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color
Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 7.4 %
Bitterness: 21.1 IBUs
Est Color: 10.1 EBC


Edit. spaced out ingredients to make it easier to read

 

[mje1980]

Up the Ibus IMHO but it looks good. It should ferment much lower than 1.012, closer to 1.004 or so if it's a saison strain, so be careful.

 

[Pogierob]

Up the Ibus IMHO but it looks good. It should ferment much lower than 1.012, closer to 1.004 or so if it's a saison strain, so be careful.

Cheers,

so what would you recommend for IBU? 25?

I figured the FG would be lower but I'm not sure how to alter that in Beersmith (if you can) as I assumed the yeast addition would have altered but it didn't

 

[mje1980]

I've only done a few, but I'd go 35 plus for that gravity. My current one is 38 for 1.056, but I plan on bottling this and leaving it for a good 6 months. The yeast should add some tartness but I reckon for the og it might need a little more Ibus.

My latest is inspired from me trying saison DuPont, very dry and highly bitter, but fruity as well. Great beer .

 

[tazman1967]

Id drop the Cascade dry hop.
I used the French hop Triscal in my Dupont dry hopped clone. lovely. Otherwise, Id dry hop with Styrians, keep the theme of the hops going through the beer.
If you want to use American, then stay away from the "grapefruit" hops. eg. Cascade.
Use Centennial, Citra or Mosaic.

 

[Tex083]

If you can find Strisselspalt its a French hop variety that is probably close to what was used orignally

 

[pat_00]

I made one with Victoria's Secret, which was delicious.

 

[mje1980]

If you can find Strisselspalt its a French hop variety that is probably close to what was used orignally

I imagine what was used originally wouldve been what was locally available surely?

 

[Pogierob]

Does that mean my mostly locally sourced ingredients is on par with the idea? Or should I still drop the aussie cascade?

 

[manticle]

Put the aussie cascade in if you think it will complement the flavours or if you want to find out if it will.
Personally I wouldn't dry hop but if it's what you want to do/try then do it and adjust next time depending on results.

 

[Pogierob]

Ok so if I stick to the old styrian goldings all through and drop the cascade.
Probably a good idea since I still have a kg of SG in the freezer kindly donated by manticle from the 5kg unknown hops. If this works out it might become a house saison for a while to use it up.

 

[Adr_0]

I have some Czech Saaz left over, and will probably buy some more Motueka (seem to go through a lot of that...) and some Styrian Goldings, for doing a couple of Belgians.

From Saaz, Motueka and S.Goldings, what would be a good profile for a Saison? I am aiming for 1056-1060 and probably just under 30IBU.

 

[manticle]

Unless you want new world saison, I'd go saaz and styrian. Hop combo used in duvel. I tend towards hallertau mitt for saisons due to the slight lemon hit I get from it but any noble or noble type works well.

 

[Adr_0]

Cheers. 60min Saaz, 30min Saaz, 15min Styrian sound ok?

 

[manticle]

Yep. Lovely.

 

[Spiesy]

Going to bang out my first ever Saison tomorrow... first brew on the new Brau, so it's a double "first for".
With the hops, I'm clearing out my closet, or so to speak.

Saison crew - what are your thoughts?

Saison

BM > NC
45L batch > 75% efficiency

1046 OG / 1009 FG
4.9% alc. vol. > 4.1 SRM > 30 IBU

6.6kg Dingemans Pilsner
1.8kg Joe White Wheat
450g Dingemans Biscuit

24g Hallertau Magnum (12%AA) @ 60 for 18 IBU
10g EKG (5.7%AA) @ 60 for 3.5 IBU
30g EKG (5.7%AA) @ 20 for 7.2 IBU
23g Styrian Golding (5.2%AA) @ flame out for 2 IBU

Brewbrite and Yeast Nutrient added

Mash Schedule:
55 for 5 / 62 for 10 / 67 for 50 / 72 for 10

Ferment with WY3724 @ 25-degrees

 

[manticle]

Looks good but that is a lot of biscuit. Half or less.

 

[Spiesy]

Looks good but that is a lot of biscuit. Half or less.

Was another brewer's recommendation.

 

[manticle]

I love biscuit and use it for many, many beer styles but it is a powerful malt. Saison is yeast driven - the hops and malt play supporting roles. Pils + wheat is enough but biscuit does bring something to the party. 450g though is like letting him loose in the punch bowl. I know it's a double batch but as a percentage it seems over the top and much more than I would use.

 

[Spiesy]

Thanks for the feedback.

Just bought myself a Saison Dupont to dip my toe in the water.

 

[Moad]

This thread made me want to do another saison. The only one ive done I fermented too cold and it was a bit dissapointing.

Takeaway is that the style is yeast driven so look after those yeasties!

 

[Spiesy]

Really enjoyed Saison Dupont.

I've altered today's recipe to be:

7kg Dingemans Pilsner
1.5kg JW Wheat
200g Dingemans Biscuit
200g Acidulated

5g Gypsum / 5g Epsom / 7g Calcium Chloride

Hops, yeast and mash schedule as above

 

[manticle]

Looks good spiesy. Don't be afraid if it gets hot. The one time you can pretend kit instructions make sense.

 

[Spiesy]

Looks good spiesy. Don't be afraid if it gets hot. The one time you can pretend kit instructions make sense.

Thanks mate.

 

[droid]

How'd that turn out?

 

[bradmccoy]

How'd that turn out?

Batch got infected Seemed like a winner though, will definitely give it another go. Made a beer with similar grainbill using ale yeasts (Irish and Scottish) and it turned out well. Have half of it sitting in a container with brett.

 

[droid]

bugger!

 

[Adr_0]

In thinking about this, I think Halletau and Tettnang would be a great combination for a saison - slightly leathery, spicey, tobacco with the Halletau and spicy/peppery/floral with the tettnang. I think a mix of these would complement saison yeast well, and would work if you add orange peel for e.g. Don't bitter less than 30IBU. I'm not sure what the ceiling would be as it depends on your schedule and which hops you use, but somewhere in the 30-35 range is probably ok. You want a solid bitterness for this style.

 

[manticle]

I find hall mitt quite lemony rather than deep/tobacco but it is my hop of choice in a saison because that lemon complements the yeast spice beautifully. Tettnanger and spalt would be my next two choices

 

[droid]

something I stumbled upon

BACHELOR’S BUTTONS
Traditional, Well-hopped Saison

Based on a recipe first home-brewed to celebrate the last days of single life for Lead Brewer Jay Sullivan in 2009, this Saison is perfect for everyday celebrations.

A hazy golden brew with a rich fluffy white head, brewed in the traditional, un-spiced Saison style typical of the south of Belgium and northern France. Bachelor’s Buttons was crafted with Canadian 2 Row, Wheat, Vienna and Rye Malts. Earthy
herbal and floral notes greet you in the nose and mingle with hints of fresh cut grass.
European hops Styrian Goldings, Saaz, Spalt and Tettnang provide a balanced counterpoint to the aroma of hay and spicy character provided by the rye malt and bright fruitiness from our house Belgian yeast.