Home Roasted Malts And Belgian Candi Sugar

[black_labb]

spent the evening making some fermentables by roasting some grain and making some belgian candi sugar while the malt was in the oven. seemed to be a success.

i tried 3 different methods when roasting the malt. each used pale ale malt as the base and was done in 200g lots.

the first lot i prepared by soaking the malt in a bit of water for around 4 hours (kept it in the fridge).
second lot i wet a little bit as it went in the oven. the amount of water was a bit less than the soaked one above.
third lot was completely dry.

each of the malts were in the oven for the same amount of time. they were all roughly the same depth in the pans at around 10mm and they were all stirred somewhat regularly. i dont think the stirring was too neccesary as the grain wasnt deep.
i put the malts in the oven at around 100*c but left the oven off to let the temp drop as the malt got to temp. it cooled pretty quick as i had the door open alot more than normal to get the temp to around 70* it ended up staying around 70 for 30mins then i ramped it up to 100* for another 20mins and then 140 for 1-1.5 hrs roughly. the idea behind the temps was for the starch to partially convert to sugars to turn the soaked one to crystal/cara something, and then caramelise the sugar. i wasnt too worried about what came out it was more for the experement.

the soaked one turned out the darkest by far followed by the wetted one then by the dry one. the soaked one is sweeter than the dry one and i'd say i probably made something around a light crystal. i dont think the starch is all converted and there is a fair variance between the color of the inside from piece to piece. i think the ones that were at the bottom when soaking converted to sugar then caramel. the ones closer to the top were not submerged in the water so they didnt or only partially converted to sugar. the dry malt didnt seem to darken much on the outside but the inside darkened and the flavour came to a nice biscuity flavour. the one that was wetted seems prettymuch in the middle for each of these evaluations but probably sits closer to the dry than the soaked.


i have been interested in making some candi sugar and thought that it would be a good time to do it while i'm doing the malts as i'd be in the kitchen.

i measured out 500g of white sugar, ~1/3rd of a teaspoon of citric acid and added around 1.5 cups of water to the saucepan and started to heat up it up while stirring to stop the sugar from sticking/burning. i realised that i think i had too much water so added 100g sugar, and then 200g a bit after that. i realised that i would of had to boil off alot of water before i got the desired consistancy which is why i added the sugar.

i had it on medium heat (gas stovetop) and contantly stirred. i would drip a bit on wax paper every once in a while and test it. it went slightly yellow and darkened to an amber which is where i originally planned to stop but i probably went close to a dark candi sugar colour in the end. i then poured it onto some wax paper and let it sit. after a few hours i smashed it into smaller pieces and its in a ziplock bag in the fridge now. the color is close to the darkness of brown beer bottles, but has a reddier amber colour as opposed to the brown of the beer bottle.

sorry for the lack of photo's, the camera's battery is dead. will try to get some up when i can though.



i'm not really sure what to do with them yet. i would like to do a belgian ale of some sort. i have a bottle of la fin du monde by unibroue that i want to try to cultivate the yeast from. i also would like to do some type of ipa, not sure if it will be american or uk style.
for those who have used dark candi sugar, is it likely to go well with maltier malts (ie would it be a bad idea to combine the roasted malts with the dark candi sugar or would the flavours clash)

i'm thinking of trying an american ipa with candi sugar, but i dont know about using the dark candi sugar.

 

[manticle]

Nice work on the experiments.

I've only ever used candi in belgian styles although I was recently wondering about adding some to some other beer types. Keep in mind that it is sucrose so it will fully ferment out so malty vs dry. I'ts normally used to balance high grav beers to stop them being over malty and help them attenuate (you probably know this) and the cooking process will add some flavour complexity depending on how dark you went.

Normally I make candi the same way you did - sugar syrup reduced right down till it's the right colour. However yesterday I experiemented with cooking the sugar (dry and stirring constantly) until it melted, then adding boiling water gradually. It spits and that stuff will stick like napalm so be careful. Reduce in the same way but it takes a fraction of the time to get a dark syrup that seems to have more complexity than the first method. I used raw sugar, a touch of white vinegar and a squeeze of lemon for mine.

 

[black_labb]

good idea about melting it then adding the boiling water. i can imagine alot of spitting but it should get it there much quicker.

i know that it will promote a drier finish. i'm thinking a darker american ipa using the dark candi sugar. i'd do a mash aiming for 1055 or so and then add the candi sugar after the ferment slows. my only concern is the caramelised sugar from darkening it will give it some flavours that will clash with a maltier AIPA.
i'll probably use the 3x200g of roasted malts as well as pale ale malt. this will probably give a bit more body than most and keep the body at a reasonable level dispite a fair bit of candi sugar.
what are people's views on the candi sugar used this way? it seems that most belgian beers use a basic malt (usually pilsener). i'm curious as to wether a maltier base would clash with the candi sugar.

i'm thinking i may get 2 10L cubes and do quite different beers between them but using the same wort. say one with some cube/dry hopping and a clean yeast (us05 probably) the other with no cube/dryhopping and a belgian yeast. i could do another batch of the candy sugar and not darken it as much (just amber maybe). the dark candi sugar can go in the belgian and the lighter one in the hoppy one.


i borrowed my girlfriends camera and took a photo of the malts, but i dont have the cable to connect it to the computer. will upload the photo once i get to my girlfriend's place.

 

[manticle]

Belgians still have a reasonable amount of maltiness though. High gravity worts combined with mashing high and long then balanced out with the sugar as far as I'm aware.

You could get some nice burnt toffee flavours to go with the ccaramel sweetness in an APA or even US brown.

 

[komodo]

Any one got info on "creating" specialty malts at home?

 

[black_labb]

here are the photos

the lightest one is the pale ale malt that hasnt been roasted, the next 3 are the ones i roasted (lightest is dry, partially wetted is middle and soaked is the darkest)

while there isnt too much of a difference in the outside colour for the dry roast, the starch inside was browned a fair bit. i think keeping the temp at 140* the husks werent too heavily browned/burnt but the starch was effected, which is what makes the difference.

here's the candi sugar. its probably amber i guess. the flash seemed to make it look a bit lighter but is pretty good at showing it.

i think you might be right manticle about the burnt toffee working well with a bit of crystal sweetness. i just wanted to check as i wasnt sure how the candi sugar effects the flavour of a beer. havent had much belgian style ales before.
i'm not too picky about getting the category right, just good beer that i enjoy and more importantly the joy of trying something new.

komodo: these links were helpful.

http://oz.craftbrewer.org/Library/Methods/.../roasting.shtml

http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter20-4.html

 

[manticle]

If you are going to try it in something like an apa, maybe mash a little higher to compensate for the extra sugar. Could also go nicely in an aussie style dark ale/old ale.

 

[black_labb]

i think i'll do a hoppy apa and add the candi sugar to bring it to ipa alc levels while staying at apa levels for body.

 

[black_labb]

decided to brew the beer last night using all the roasted malts and 100g of crystal 60
ended up doing an americanish ipa i guess. had a spare can of coopers "real ale" which i used for some of the malt bill and the bittering addition of the hops. added chinook and nelson sauvin at 10 mins and into the cube. will do some hop tea later.

ended up as quite a dark beer, and i havent added the candi sugar yet.

here's the recipe


Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 23.0
Total Grain (kg): 4.500
Total Hops (g): 63.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.055
Colour (SRM): 10.0
Bitterness (IBU): 61.1
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 85
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
2 kg Pale Ale Malt (44.44%)
0.1 kg Crystal 60 (2.22%)
0.2 kg Biscuit (4.44%)
0.2 kg Amber Malt (4.44%)
0.2 kg Brown Malt (4.44%)
1.7 kg Liquid Malt Extract - Light (37.78%)
0.1 kg Wheat Malt (2.22%)

Hop Bill
----------------
23 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (10% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (1 g/l)
10 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (10% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/l)
10 g Chinook Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/l)
10 g Nelson Sauvin Pellet (10% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/l)
10 g Chinook Pellet (11.3% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/l)

Single step Infusion at 67C for 80 Minutes.
Fermented at 18c with us05


Recipe Generated with BrewMate


i havent included the belgian candi sugar or the hops used in the hop tea as they will be added later. i will add the candi sugar (800g of sugar +water) as the ferment slows.