Help planning a 120L System

[AntonW]

Thanks for the reply,

My next step was to do the math on the electricity and it sounds like 3 phase would almost certainly be required. You asked if I really need 120L, this project may be intended to brew around 1200L a year of beer on contract for a specific purpose. To that end, 3 phase may be an acceptable solution if it is the best one. Having said all that... Gas seems the easiest and cheapest install.

Looking at the numbers again I wonder if could get anything close to this batch size without HLT and MLT being at least 120L, Even a smaller batch and dilution at the end wouldn't help me much with 100L pots.

If that Ebay link is any good I could grab 3 of those 140L and pimp them out with Beerbelly fittings...

Quite a project indeed! There isn't much on the market at this size. Braumeister have the 200L system, but that is VERY expensive and fermenting more than 120L at a time opens up new challenges (as far as I can see) anyway...

Hello again,

I see that my edit didn't make it into your quote. Hope that hasn't stuffed you up. (4.128joules to heat 1g by 1degree, not 1joule.)

You can brew 100 litres with a 100 litre kettle. You just have make it stronger and dilute it. No problem with doing this - I understand that most commercial breweries do because it lets them optimise the use of their equipment, their time and their energy, and be sure of hitting their OG.

Unless you're brewing really big beers you won't have a problem. Just use as much grain as you would for a 100 litre batch but only fill the kettle to 80 litres and dilute it back up. You could probably make even bigger batches than that if you wanted.

But, by the same logic, if you get a 140 litre kettle you'll be able to brew at least 140 litres if not more.

The gas burner that you need for this job *must* be installed by a plumber/gasfitter and they're *not* for domestic use. And you'll need heat shields and a steel brew frame. So, gas is only slightly less complicated than electricity. But, at least it'll get your water hot within a reasonable amount of time.

Good luck!

 

[punkin]

I know this may seem out there, but for the price you are paying for shiney bling have you done any investigations on having what you want custom built?

I don't mean by a fancy brew company, just your local stainless fab shop. My big pot is around 160l, came from a single sheet of stainless and is customised exactly how i want it.
Originally designed to run on steam injection, I later stripped the bottom third of the insulation off and run a 4 ring burner underneath on a hp reg.

It cost a lot less than $1100.

Just food for thought.

 

[roller997]

Another option in terms of the larger vessels is to import one at a time via one of the re-direction services.

The Blichmann gear is manufactured really well, has a very good quality thermometer, 3 piece ball valve and borosilicate glass level gauge. If you added that to a locally manufactured vessel you may not be saving that much.

I imported a Blichmann 208 liter boiler for under $985 which means that I didn't have to pay GST on the unit. I was thinking of saving on postage ($293USD) by shipping two but the GST would have negated the savings. The crowd I used was iRetailUSA to re-direct the shippment.

The shipping costs were based on volume so in theory you could ship other components inside the pot. A 114 liter pot would be quite a bit cheaper.
There is a handling fee which is 10% of the cost of the item + shippment fee.
iRetailUSA charge more for Paypal as you can claw your money back again if it doesn't arrive but apparently they have transport insurance.

Food for thought.

Cheers

Roller

 

[SergeMarx]

If it were my money I'd seriously consider a 50Litre BM and just brew more often. The brewing is fairly straight forward, but have you got means to ferment that kind of volume in a temperature controlled environment?

 

[Muzduk]

Another option in terms of the larger vessels is to import one at a time via one of the re-direction services.

The Blichmann gear is manufactured really well, has a very good quality thermometer, 3 piece ball valve and borosilicate glass level gauge. If you added that to a locally manufactured vessel you may not be saving that much.

I imported a Blichmann 208 liter boiler for under $985 which means that I didn't have to pay GST on the unit. I was thinking of saving on postage ($293USD) by shipping two but the GST would have negated the savings. The crowd I used was iRetailUSA to re-direct the shippment.

The shipping costs were based on volume so in theory you could ship other components inside the pot. A 114 liter pot would be quite a bit cheaper.
There is a handling fee which is 10% of the cost of the item + shippment fee.
iRetailUSA charge more for Paypal as you can claw your money back again if it doesn't arrive but apparently they have transport insurance.

Food for thought.

Cheers

Roller

How are you finding the boiler mate??

 

[vittorio]

Im building a 400lt rig, if you ask anyone who brews round 100- 400lt etc. Its cheaper and better to go with gas burners. For your equipment one 34jet mongolian burner will be sufficient, Im using two on each kettle. You could iver get natural gas or lpg fitting which ever suits your brewing space, there are pros and cons with natural or lpg gas.

 

[Online Brewing Supplies]

Up to 150l electric is great as long as you have 3 phase power, I have a 150L brew length to be run on a 12kw element.
I can control the amount of power going to the element so once going good i just turn it down on watts.
Oh and I use the power meter as a fan :lol:
Nev

 

[bradsbrew]

Oh and I use the power meter as a fan :lol:
Nev

:lol: :lol:

 

[crozdog]

Three things:

1. Think outside the square. Instead of using a HLT, why not install a commercial instantaneous gas hot water service? They will hit 75*C and mean you don't need another vessel.
2. Why not make some of your own gear? 200l poly drums are cheap (I bought 1 for $19 a few weeks ago to store grain in). some braid in the bottom & wrap it in camp mat for a large mash tun for under $150
3. Don't just look at the brew shops, checkout the 2nd hand market. There are several companies who sell used SS buckets and tanks from bakeries, pharmaceutical manufacturers & food production places. They usually have a large range at reasonable prices. I can recommend Fallsdel.

none of this is theory. I have a commercial HWS (greys online $420); a modified 200l olive drum mash tun ($2 for the drum, $50 for braid, $10 for plumbing fittings & 15 for insulation); and a 170l ss pot from Fallsdel $300. Checkout the pics under my name & you will see all of these in action. The biggest day I have had using this gear (+ extra pots & burners from my ISB mates) was 600l! We did 2 mashes and partigyled both to produce 4 different beers @150l each.

Oh, use gas for your heating - much cheaper. Italian spirals & Med or HP regs are great. Checkout commercial gas places like gameco for other HP burner options. Also, you will find that your pot size is what limits your brew size not your mash tun.

 

[mash head]

Nice work with the hws. I wasn't aware you could get ones that were not restricted below 60c. The one I use is fine for protein rests but it would be nice to hit mash out temps I wonder if a domestic one could be modified for higher temps. Might have to ask the manufacturer

 

[booargy]

I have a portable instant gas hot water service. by adjusting water flow I can get 80c from it.

 

[punkin]

Nice work with the hws. I wasn't aware you could get ones that were not restricted below 60c. The one I use is fine for protein rests but it would be nice to hit mash out temps I wonder if a domestic one could be modified for higher temps. Might have to ask the manufacturer

If you look on the outside of the HWS you will see the temper valve. The regs (in NSW at least) say that you need to have tempered water (on new systems) into your kitchen and bathroom. You can tee off before the temper valve and run into your laundry (or just put a tap on your HWS and take off straight from there.
I run a line before the valve from my solar hot water system into my brewery and get between 65 and 85 C water depending on the weather. Makes heating strike water pretty quick. And the system just recharges itself on a sunny day for near free.

 

[Greg.L]

One economical solution to heating large volumes of water is the traditional way - burning firewood or coal. Back in the day whole economies ran on heating water with wood or coal. As long as you aren't getting pressure up you don't need special licenses or tradesmen to install. Firewood packs a lot of btus. I realise folks on this forum aren't receptive to such low tech stuff but it's worthy of consideration.

 

[QldKev]

One economical solution to heating large volumes of water is the traditional way - burning firewood or coal. Back in the day whole economies ran on heating water with wood or coal. As long as you aren't getting pressure up you don't need special licenses or tradesmen to install. Firewood packs a lot of btus. I realise folks on this forum aren't receptive to such low tech stuff but it's worthy of consideration.

How do you dial up 57c for mash in?

 

[Grainer]

Talk to Nev.. he is doing custom pots now.. look good quality and you can get the welded components anywhere you want on the pot.. My pots look great.. sure they are no blichmann.. but all 3 pots were still cheaper than 1 blichmann !!

He posted mine to Victoria no issues at all .. plus all components