Help! Flat Beer

[joel_cabban]

i have been brewing can and kilo for a little while, and have made a keg setup out of a 215L chest freezer, with a fridgemate to keep it at about -1...

my problem has been flat beer (still managed to drink it, but it would be nice if it wasnt flat)

i'm charging kegs at 30-35psi, then bringing it down to 10 to serve, before taking it back up overnight...

-thomas coopers australian lager: flat (didn't really measure gas or temp much, gassing in an esky), but i think it got more gassy towards the bottom of the keg?
-indian pale ale: flat, though this keg is still fairly new gassed at 30psi @ 0~-2 degrees for 5 days, still flat, pouring 3/4 head at first.

is my keg too full? i fill it up to under the gas dip tube, i'm gassing through the gas port... its shitting me!?!

any suggestions? cheers

 

[Brewman_]

Hi Joel_cabban,

Are you trying to carb up at room temp? Why are you bring the temp up and down, like "overnight"? Your keg is not too full that should not be am issue.

Have you tried to naturally carb your kegs, this is the simplest way to start. If you really wanto to force carb there are some instructions here that will guide you, I think it is called Al's or Ross's method or something like that.

Fear.

 

[joel_cabban]

i've got the keg in my freezer, where the temp fluctuates between -2 and 0 degrees, where i have the gas bottle and everything in the freezer. the first keg was a bit of a shambles, because i didnt have the freezer ready, thomas coopers australian heritage lager in an icebox at 10psi for about 2 weeks.

i'm going to leave the keg at 10psi (after it has been at 30psi for 5 days to no carbonation), is this naturally carbonating? am i doing the right thing?

cheers

 

[Brewman_]

Hi,

Found the link, hope this works.
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum//ind...on#topicoptions

Natural carbonation is adding sugar - dextrose to you keg when you fill it and then letting it sit like a bottle of home brew, to allow it to carbonate. This will take the same time as a bottle, so 2 weeks or so, but is really simple and reliable.

What you are doing is force carbonating and that is the topic of the link. The main thing i sthat you have to have your keg cold. there is a heap of science to it, but read the link first.

Fear

 

[Bribie G]

i have been brewing can and kilo for a little while, and have made a keg setup out of a 215L chest freezer, with a fridgemate to keep it at about -1...

my problem has been flat beer (still managed to drink it, but it would be nice if it wasnt flat)

i'm charging kegs at 30-35psi, then bringing it down to 10 to serve, before taking it back up overnight...

-thomas coopers australian lager: flat (didn't really measure gas or temp much, gassing in an esky), but i think it got more gassy towards the bottom of the keg?
-indian pale ale: flat, though this keg is still fairly new gassed at 30psi @ 0~-2 degrees for 5 days, still flat, pouring 3/4 head at first.

is my keg too full? i fill it up to under the gas dip tube, i'm gassing through the gas port... its shitting me!?!

any suggestions? cheers

Still confused, you say your freezer is at -1 on the fridgemate. So are you saying that you keep the kegs out at room temperature, put them in the freezer to let them cool down to 10 for serving, then take them out again to warm up, or what ? Erm why not just set the fridgemate to 10 or maybe 6 (as I would do for a nice cold draught beer) and just leave them there full time? They would carb up nicely in just a few days and stay carbed and fizzy.

 

[joel_cabban]

thanks for the link fear

bribie nah i fill the keg, then put it in the freezer at -1 to gas, where it has been at 30psi for 5-6days. i turned the gas down to 10psi and purged to let some pressure out before serving, and when i poured, it was making 2/3 of a schooner of head at best, and the beer was flat... i had 4 schooners over about an hour to make sure it wasn't just unsettled in the keg or something, so yeah still unsure what it might be...

the photo shows the beer and gas lines, and how there hooked up, but i can't see how this would be the problem

 

[joel_cabban]

how much dex should i add to naturally carb, and would it be best to keep it at room temp for 2 weeks or in the fridge at -1??

cheers

 

[DUANNE]

thanks for the link fear

bribie nah i fill the keg, then put it in the freezer at -1 to gas, where it has been at 30psi for 5-6days. i turned the gas down to 10psi and purged to let some pressure out before serving, and when i poured, it was making 2/3 of a schooner of head at best, and the beer was flat... i had 4 schooners over about an hour to make sure it wasn't just unsettled in the keg or something, so yeah still unsure what it might be...

the photo shows the beer and gas lines, and how there hooked up, but i can't see how this would be the problem

looks to me to be the beer is actually over carbonated.also that beer line looks like its to short and you may need to balance the system better.heres alink that may help
http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...;showarticle=24

 

[henderjo]

Hi Joel,

I've been kegging since day one, so know nothing about bottles... having said this - take your time to fully understand both links posted and you should sort your worries. For my two cents, don't bother force carbing as it can end in tears and a new reg ($$$). Your set up looks solid, but needs a couple of things if you'd like a quick win.

1 - add a one way 'check' valve on you gas line between reg and keg (close to your reg) if you try force carbing you may get beer in your reg = game over.
2 - you need make your beer line longer. As a rough guide, I use about 2.5 meters @ 80 psi. Just roll up the line into a coil and secure with zip ties or similar. Go to the trouble of making it one piece with no joins - no joins means less turbulence which will just give you foaming.
3 - turn your gas up... to about 60-80 psi.

Some things I found out along the way:

I needed to understand those two posts to make great beer.
If the tap isn't cold it'll foam - so I always end up wasting the half glass of beer each night... then it's fine.
DON'T TOUCH THE REG!!!!! EVER!!!!... once you've decided on, and set your pressure, leave it along, yes even over night, yes even the week you'll be away... if your system is solid you won't loose any gas.
To carb - just attach your gas line at pouring pressure and wait... ... ... it'll be ok by day 3, good by day 4, and great by day 5, and most likely gone a day later if you have mates <_<
When the pressure (excuse the pun) is on, and you need it gassed now... just attach the gas as per usual and shake, roll, agitate the keg for 10 minutes or so [you can shake the crap out of it!]... let it rest for 5 or 10 minutes, spill the first beer, then it'll be at about day 4 (maybe cloudy if you don't clear or filter your beer though)
Use a check valve - it's saved my reg once or twice.

Let us know how you go.

Hendo.

 

[joel_cabban]

hey i bumped the gas up to around 13psi the other day and now its pouring all foam! 2 pics here, one straight after pour, one after 10 min and the topped up..

 

[henderjo]

So how long is the line from your keg to tap?

 

[joel_cabban]

after 10 min

 

[joel_cabban]

4 meters... so i dont get it? it worked better (1/4 beer to 3/4 head) with a 600mm hose... both flat

 

[QSR]

According to your previous photo......the beer line from keg to tap does not look anywhere near 4 metres - doesn'y even look like it would be 2 metres ( unless it is just that photo )
Your pouring pressure looks just slightly too high looking at your regulator too.
I agree with one of the posters that your beer is also overgassed ( none of these things are helping you to pour a good beer at the moment )

 

[henderjo]

Joel,

My mistake - psi and KPA arggg!!! I'm on kpa, sorry. Gassing as you did (in original post) @ 30psi for 5-6 days will WAY over do it! search for 'over gassed' to help you fix your issue this time. next time just aim for around 5 days at pouring pressure and temp, say 10 psi.

[edit]

I've been kegging since day one, so know nothing about bottles... having said this - take your time to fully understand both links posted and you should sort your worries. For my two cents, don't bother force carbing as it can end in tears and a new reg ($$$). Your set up looks solid, but needs a couple of things if you'd like a quick win.

1 - add a one way 'check' valve on you gas line between reg and keg (close to your reg) if you try force carbing you may get beer in your reg = game over.
2 - you need make your beer line longer. As a rough guide, I use about 2.5 meters @ 10 psi. Just roll up the line into a coil and secure with zip ties or similar. Go to the trouble of making it one piece with no joins - no joins means less turbulence which will just give you foaming.
3 - keep your reg at about 10 psi.

Some things I found out along the way:

I needed to understand those two posts to make great beer.
If the tap isn't cold it'll foam - so I always end up wasting the half glass of beer each night... then it's fine.
DON'T TOUCH THE REG!!!!! EVER!!!!... once you've decided on, and set your pressure, leave it along, yes even over night, yes even the week you'll be away... if your system is solid you won't loose any gas.
To carb - just attach your gas line at pouring pressure and wait... ... ... it'll be ok by day 3, good by day 4, and great by day 5, and most likely gone a day later if you have mates dry.gif
When the pressure (excuse the pun) is on, and you need it gassed now... just attach the gas as per usual and shake, roll, agitate the keg for 10 minutes or so [you can shake the crap out of it!]... let it rest for 5 or 10 minutes, spill the first beer, then it'll be at about day 4 (maybe cloudy if you don't clear or filter your beer though)
Use a check valve - it's saved my reg once or twice.

Let us know how you go.

 

[user 10246]

Joel,

Make sure the beer is not frozen too mate. I had a couple that behave just like that if they get a little too cold. Shake the keg a little & make sure there are no floaties in it...

Cheers
Goldy

 

[goomboogo]

Joel, your beer is definitely over carbonated. 5 days at 30 psi or 210kpa for beer that is being chilled as low as yours is going to make for an extremely gassy beer. The reason it seems flat is because the gas is coming out of solution (the glass full of gassy froth) and by the time the froth dies down there is no gas in the beer that remains.

If you are going to gas at serving pressure then 10psi(70 kpa) is going to be closer to the mark. The exact number will depend on the desired carbonation level as well as the temperature of the beer.

 

[QSR]

Yes, also forgot to mention your fridgemate temperarure is too low.
I have set my fridgemate at 4 degrees ( where it fluctuates between 2 and 5 degrees ) have never altered it since.

What you need to do now is get rid of some of that excess gas in your keg.
This time only........turn off your gas. Pull the pressure release valve up until the hissing ( gas escaping ) almost stops or stops ( about 5 seconds or so )and then shut the valve back off. Leave the gas turned off still. Release it again tomorrow morning and afternoon....but try it each afternoon before releasing until you can pour a good beer from it. You will find you will rarely need to add gas to pour again......if so....just turn on your gas for about 2 to 3 seconds.....and it will pour good again......

Hope this helps :beerbang:

 

[joel_cabban]

ok so i've brought the gas down to 10psi, raised the temp to between 0 and 2 degrees, waited 3 days (releasing and shaking periodically), poured beer...

first half schooner was foam (due to hot lines outside the freezer?)- left to sit, calmed down, went flat (expected)

poured a 7oz: beer looked good! good colour plenty of bubbles stuck to the inside of the glass, and some rising, lots of creamy head but looked like a decent beer!

poured another: all foam!!

first thing: it looks like its kinda dribbling a out of the tap when pouring (compared to a commercial tap) any comments? normal?

and second: could it be the beer??

ive tried: new glass, clean glass, dirty glass, different shapes of glasses (even one shaped like a naked chick - no luck funnily enough...), different ways of pouring, higher pressure, lower pressure, standing on one leg whilst pouring...

attached photo shows foam being poured at 10psi, keg temp 1 degree thru about 4m of beer line, 1/3 keg, the line is about 1/2 keg old...

thanks everyone for your patience, at least if anyone else ever experiences this problem, just about every possible cause has been discussed...

 

[bullfrog]

I'd point to your 4m lines as the reason the beer 'dribbles' out of the tap. Just going on my limited understanding of keg systems (currently building mine), the average line length should be about half that. That's what my LHBS bloke told me, anyways (although it's moot for me because I bought Celi taps).