GUTEN

[goatchop41]

this netted me very poor efficiency (~55%) and I missed my target OG by quite a margin even after a 9L sparge.

Well there is part of your issue. You've done a relatively small sparge, hence your extraction was sub-optimal. Yes, I know from your other posts on this thread that you prefer to do greater volume mashes, but you can't have your cake and eat it, especially with bigger grain bills.
You either have to accept that you need to use a smaller mash volume and a bigger sparge, or just accept that your efficiency will take a good hit.

The recirculation on a machine like this is not about extraction. Recirculation helps with wort clarity/ grain bed filtering and consistent mash temperatures. Yes, there is some extraction going on, but the mash is mostly about conversion, and the extraction happens in the sparge. If you're expecting that recirculating will do a lot of extraction, then you're probably going to be disappointed.

 

[altone]

I brewed a Belgian yesterday and came up against a few issues, first the recipe called for 20m at 45C, I have the older model and it will not allow you to go below 50C, probably not a massive issue. The grain bill was 6.7kg and to be frank thats too big for this machine, I had to have the top plate off and the bazooka over the overflow but when using the pump with the recirc liquid and grain where flowing down the holes for the handle so I tried blocking them up, that just resulted in the liquid overflowing the top of the tun, end result was I had to turn the pump off for the majority of the mash, this netted me very poor efficiency (~55%) and I missed my target OG by quite a margin even after a 9L sparge.

I think its safe to say 6KG is the limit for these 40L machine and then you will need to have the top plate off and watch the recirc carefully. Maybe time for an upgrade to the bigger machine

Err, I've been at a brew with 8.2Kg of grain in the Robobrew 35l and I've done a brew with 8Kg in the Guten 40l
I blocked the handle holes, put some hose on the overflow pipe and wound the pump back so it didn't overflow but it worked ok and was at just under 70% efficiency. with an 8 litre sparge.

Having said that, it was a bit tricky to handle and if you're looking at regularly using grain bills much over 6Kg you'd be better off with the larger model for sure.

 

[ABG]

I do believe Promash was bought by the current owners of this site who also own Brewers Friend, there was some discussion a while back. If you haven't put your name in the draw for a freebie Brewers Friend Premium, do it now. (don't ask for a comparison they both have their good and bad points)
As for the Guten/Grainfather/Robobrew I think if Choice did a review on all three the Guten would come out on top taking in to consideration price point, build and performance. Yes the Grainfather has the extra bits and pieces but considering the price is 4-5 times dearer that tips the balance.
As for the RoboG3 not a lot of reviews out there apart from bent screens and one forum member had his blow first time he turned it on. Maybe Keg King should put a photo of the mountain of returns of the RoboG2, a big headache for the new management, but a good choice to go with the Guten

I have a Robobrew 3 and am super happy with it. Only about a dozen brews down so far, but aside from the issue you mentioned with wonky screens (which took less than 2 minutes to fix), it's been fantastic especially considering the bargain price. A mate has the GF and apart from all the nice to have, not need to have bells and whistles (and much bigger price ticket) the real advantage of the GF over the RB is head space. Doing a bigger IPA with 6.5 Kg of grain is definitely easier in the GF. Has anyone brewed side by side with all 3 to see how the Guten holds up in this regard?

Also, slightly off topic, why do you do no sparge WEAL? Isn't the sparge where most of the conversion takes place? Won't you be sacrificing efficiency in a fairly big way? I'm still pretty new to AG brewing, so curious as to what works and what doesn't and always like to challenge perceived wisdoms (often learning the hard way they're perceived wisdoms for a good reason ).

 

[Leyther]

Err, I've been at a brew with 8.2Kg of grain in the Robobrew 35l and I've done a brew with 8Kg in the Guten 40l
I blocked the handle holes, put some hose on the overflow pipe and wound the pump back so it didn't overflow but it worked ok and was at just under 70% efficiency. with an 8 litre sparge.

Having said that, it was a bit tricky to handle and if you're looking at regularly using grain bills much over 6Kg you'd be better off with the larger model for sure.

How think is your mash with 8kg in it? assuming you would need ~23L of water to cover that (I had 24L in the 6.7kg), are you not then very close to the top of the tun? even dialing the pump to almost a trickle I found it would eventually come upto the holes and over the sides.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I brewed a Belgian yesterday and came up against a few issues, first the recipe called for 20m at 45C, I have the older model and it will not allow you to go below 50C, probably not a massive issue. The grain bill was 6.7kg and to be frank thats too big for this machine, I had to have the top plate off and the bazooka over the overflow but when using the pump with the recirc liquid and grain where flowing down the holes for the handle so I tried blocking them up, that just resulted in the liquid overflowing the top of the tun, end result was I had to turn the pump off for the majority of the mash, this netted me very poor efficiency (~55%) and I missed my target OG by quite a margin even after a 9L sparge.

I think its safe to say 6KG is the limit for these 40L machine and then you will need to have the top plate off and watch the recirc carefully. Maybe time for an upgrade to the bigger machine

I am going to lift my malt pipe higher utilising the 2 holes for the handles I bought some 10 mm s/steel althread and 4 s/steel nuts from Bunnings I am going to suspend the basket from the top of the kettle that way I can increase the liquor with out worrying about a flow over.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Also, slightly off topic, why do you do no sparge WEAL? Isn't the sparge where most of the conversion takes place? Won't you be sacrificing efficiency in a fairly big way? I'm still pretty new to AG brewing, so curious as to what works and what doesn't and always like to challenge perceived wisdoms (often learning the hard way they're perceived wisdoms for a good reason ).[/QUOTE]

I like to make things as simple as possible, 4.7 kg of grist to 28.5 litres of water 2 ways to do this to come up with the right numbers, on your program set your efficiency to 80 / 85% (whatever you are getting) and add more grain or set the efficiency to 70% (works for me) do a 90 minute mash and 90 minute boil no need to sparge and you should hit your target OG. If you are going for a bigger OG it will not work, just the beers around the 5% ABV mark

 

[altone]

How think is your mash with 8kg in it? assuming you would need ~23L of water to cover that (I had 24L in the 6.7kg), are you not then very close to the top of the tun? even dialing the pump to almost a trickle I found it would eventually come upto the holes and over the sides.

Actually 24l like you and yes, everything was pretty close to overflowing Although the external liquid level was still an inch or more below the grain level.
Perhaps I'm milling a little differently to you but I could still get a reasonable flow from the pump without filling the maltpipe with liquor to the absolute top.

Like I said before - a bit tricky and not something you want to try on a regular basis.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

What I have noticed is 2 things, if I make a bigger beer example a 7% + EIPA and bottle in 500 ml bottles, I can have 2, 3 and I am generally told, "That's enough for you for tonight"
If I make a beer around 5% or less I can get away with having more, the only remark being, " You can't possibly still be thirsty"
Since when was beer about thirst.

 

[PTG]

What I have noticed is 2 things, if I make a bigger beer example a 7% + EIPA and bottle in 500 ml bottles, I can have 2, 3 and I am generally told, "That's enough for you for tonight"
If I make a beer around 5% or less I can get away with having more, the only remark being, " You can't possibly still be thirsty"
Since when was beer about thirst.

I found the cure for that problem.
Tell problem to move out!

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I found the cure for that problem.
Tell problem to move out!

I can't believe you got rid of Daisy.

 

[goatchop41]

The immersion cooler worked really well, I ended up buying some compression fittings and fit them to it with some male hose ends. This allowed me to connected 2 hoses to it with garden quick disconnects. The temp dropped from 100C to 45C in about 15 mins. Next time I will collect the hot water into another vessel to use for cleaning.

Hey mate, what size compression fittings did you use, and where did you get them?
I foolishly bought the robobrew compression fittings from Kegland, assuming that they would fit the coil that comes with the Guten, which they definitely do not!

 

[devoutharpist]

So finally did my first brew with the guten, used 7.2kg of grain and the 50L definitely handled it well.

Post mash gravity came in incredibly low, so i am guessing that this was refractometer operator error. Got pretty close to target, with a higher volume and a lower OG, still a bit of profile tweaking to do. Overall pretty good, definitely an easy unit to use once you work it out.

 

[krz]

Hey mate, what size compression fittings did you use, and where did you get them?
I foolishly bought the robobrew compression fittings from Kegland, assuming that they would fit the coil that comes with the Guten, which they definitely do not!

These stainless-compression-fitting-to-1-2-inch-bsp-male

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

The immersion that comes with the guten is 3/8in or 10mm. I got some brass from my local pirtek. I think national home brew have some in SS the size that will fit the guten chiller.

 

[PTG]

The big green shed will stock brass fittings in 10mm

 

[doodlemeister]

I have been having nothing but issues with the Guten. I was somehow convinced by the KK staff that purchasing the Helix Coil Snake thing but this blocked up completely so I had to empty the whole boiler. Clear out this Helix Coil then start the boil again.

On the second time I ran the Guten, the thing stopped working all together and got no power to the screen!

I tried to return the unit and then was told I won't be able to return it. I've been extremely disappointed with the customer service and quite frankly, I would not recommend this POS.

I wish I had purchased a Grainfather, Robobrew, or Braumeister as this is simply not what it cracked up to be for me and most certainly it has not been a good experience being a new brewer by using this... thing and then getting close to no customer service at all.

 

[lespaul]

Horrible news! Did they say they would fix the unit?

 

[altone]

I have been having nothing but issues with the Guten. I was somehow convinced by the KK staff that purchasing the Helix Coil Snake thing but this blocked up completely so I had to empty the whole boiler. Clear out this Helix Coil then start the boil again.

On the second time I ran the Guten, the thing stopped working all together and got no power to the screen!

I tried to return the unit and then was told I won't be able to return it. I've been extremely disappointed with the customer service and quite frankly, I would not recommend this POS.

I wish I had purchased a Grainfather, Robobrew, or Braumeister as this is simply not what it cracked up to be for me and most certainly it has not been a good experience being a new brewer by using this... thing and then getting close to no customer service at all.

Ok I'm confused.... I only use the helix coil when emptying the unit via the tap, so the boil would be well and truly over.
So far I've never had it block but others have.

If you've only just purchased it you may be able to DEMAND a refund but you'd have to check on that.
I'm sure KegKing would be happy to repair or replace it if the unit is faulty though, never had a problem with their after sales service myself.
I once got a faulty item and they swapped it for a new one straight away.

 

[goatchop41]

I have been having nothing but issues with the Guten. I was somehow convinced by the KK staff that purchasing the Helix Coil Snake thing but this blocked up completely so I had to empty the whole boiler. Clear out this Helix Coil then start the boil again.

What exactly do you mean here? Were you draining the Guten after the boil? Or doing something with the tap during the boil?
Also, don't blame the Guten for an issue with the helix. Issues with the helix are usually user-related errors too (I have one myself and have never had issues).

I tried to return the unit and then was told I won't be able to return it. I've been extremely disappointed with the customer service and quite frankly, I would not recommend this POS.

It is your consumer right/guarantee in Australia for a refund/replacement on faulty goods, which this is. So you can march back in there, show them your consumer rights and get a new one or a refund.
In saying that, this sounds very unlike KK. I noticed that you didn't mention any detail at all about why they said that they wouldn't replace it...sounds a bit suss to me...

I wish I had purchased a...Robobrew...

You would be much worse off with one of them. If you truly do have an issue and this isn't a made up post, you are one of the very few with an issue with the Guten, as opposed to the very many who have issues with the Robobrew

 

[goatchop41]

On the second time I ran the Guten, the thing stopped working all together and got no power to the screen!

If this is actually a real problem, open up the bottom of the unit and have a look at all of the connections (while it isn't plugged in at the wall, obviously!). Sometimes one can come a little loose and needs to be seated properly again to get it all working