GUTEN

[Redreuben]

Thanks for the informed replies guys.
I’m thinking to use the system simply as an advanced mash tun because I like step mashing a lot and I brew with adjunct often as well, at mashout I would sparge with a rotating arm from an urn mounted higher and drain from under the grain bed into a boiler.
I’m not keen on the raising of the grain bed idea because of (a) compaction and (b) aeration.
What say you ?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Thanks for the informed replies guys.
I’m thinking to use the system simply as an advanced mash tun because I like step mashing a lot and I brew with adjunct often as well, at mashout I would sparge with a rotating arm from an urn mounted higher and drain from under the grain bed into a boiler.
I’m not keen on the raising of the grain bed idea because of (a) compaction and (b) aeration.
What say you ?

What are you going to be brewing? If you are going to be using a fair amount of adjuncts 20-25% with a fully modified grain then you will need to do a protein rest. I just do a straight infusion for most of my beers.
Whichever way you intend to go about draining the grain bed either from underneath or lifting the grain bed you will get compaction, I have been using the no sparge system and dialing the mash thickness into Brewers Friend the pre boil OG and the OG comes out pretty much spot on.

 

[Redreuben]

I brew everything from lager to lambic, so i'm familiar with various malts, grains and adjunct, I am used to floating grain beds and an overhead sparge so thats where I'd like to restart.
I haven't used no sparge systems before as I was happy with the way recirculating cleared the wort, but that happens anyway with the way the Guten works so yes maybe a batch sparge of sorts will work, hmmm will have to look at that.
Thanks.
Just for your interest my old mash tun which was mades from a plastic fermenter bucket had two sight tubes side by side, one entered below the malt screen and one above. you could see how much suction was pulling on the grain bed by the height difference of the liquid in the two tubes. That system avoided a lot of stuck mashes.

 

[chesl73]

What are you going to be brewing? If you are going to be using a fair amount of adjuncts 20-25% with a fully modified grain then you will need to do a protein rest. I just do a straight infusion for most of my beers.
Whichever way you intend to go about draining the grain bed either from underneath or lifting the grain bed you will get compaction, I have been using the no sparge system and dialing the mash thickness into Brewers Friend the pre boil OG and the OG comes out pretty much spot on.

WEAL - I've come from doing stove top BIAB which of course was no sparge. For my first 3 brews with the Guten I've been sparging but it takes time and is a bit of a pain. I'm thinking of forgetting the sparge and going full volume as you have stated. Does your efficiency drop off much? Any other considerations?
I've been getting about 70% so far which isn't brilliant but I'm fine with it.

Cheers

 

[wide eyed and legless]

WEAL - I've come from doing stove top BIAB which of course was no sparge. For my first 3 brews with the Guten I've been sparging but it takes time and is a bit of a pain. I'm thinking of forgetting the sparge and going full volume as you have stated. Does your efficiency drop off much? Any other considerations?
I've been getting about 70% so far which isn't brilliant but I'm fine with it.

Cheers

OK same machine, different brewers, this is what works for me, your grind will be different to mine, but if you try grinding a little finer you should be able to achieve 80% efficiency. Dial in 70% efficiency on whichever program you are using then doing a full volume mash should come out close to the mark. You can tweak it from there.
Works well if the ABV is 5.5% or less, if it is a higher ABV you are after you will have to start adding more grain.

 

[Leyther]

My own personal experience with no sparge in the 30l was poor efficiency, I've gone back to sparging myself, yes it's longer but I also had issues with the full volume size, it was always up around the mash tun holes and I found when you turn on the recirc pump it went over them which meant some grain getting in the boil. I'm thinking about trying a higher volume mash and small sparge as a compromise

 

[chesl73]

My own personal experience with no sparge in the 30l was poor efficiency, I've gone back to sparging myself, yes it's longer but I also had issues with the full volume size, it was always up around the mash tun holes and I found when you turn on the recirc pump it went over them which meant some grain getting in the boil. I'm thinking about trying a higher volume mash and small sparge as a compromise

Yes, I was only thinking of doing it for some smaller batch sizes so I can comfortably incorporate the full volume without, as you say, worrying about it overflowing etc. On my initial batches I've been batch sparging but doing roughly 2/3 of the water in with the mash and 1/3 for sparging, sometimes more like 3/4 and a 1/4.

 

[Redreuben]

My assumption is that using an overhead hlt I can use the Guten as a masher/lauter and run off into another boiler, which then opens up the possibility of starting another mash straight away while the first one boils.

 

[Neil Buttriss]

Demo of installing the malt pipe, makes sense.

 

[altone]

Demo of installing the malt pipe, makes sense.

It does, I think that's Sarah from the UK group.
But if you look at most of the suppliers vids they show it the other way round.

It always works for me when assembled as per this video, it may reduce the total grain capacity a bit, but better safe than pouring
stuff between containers if the bottom drops out

 

[Neil Buttriss]

Its how I have been doing it also, but a lot of guy's say they are losing the botttom out of it so this show it well. I so far have only brewed 3 times but have been all around the 5 kg mark

 

[Redreuben]

My assumption is that using an overhead hlt I can use the Guten as a masher/lauter and run off into another boiler, which then opens up the possibility of starting another mash straight away while the first one boils.

Further; What do you think about using it purely as a mash tun by removing the malt pipe ? I guess the screens would have to be wider yes ?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Further; What do you think about using it purely as a mash tun by removing the malt pipe ? I guess the screens would have to be wider yes ?

It would need a false bottom yes, but why go down that track with a single vessel brewery?

 

[devoutharpist]

Right, got my replacement recirc arm fitted. Did another test run and clean yesterday with no leaks. So i reckon i am finally ready to go.

Anyone got any general guidelines around malt pipe overflow pipe size to kg grain? as in, roughly how many kg of grain does the small overflow pipe hold, vs using the overflow large pipe?

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

I generally use 5-6kgs of grain and generally use the 2 pipes together. I watch it and throttle the flow so it matches the liquid passing through the bed. If you were to just use the longer pipe I'd think that around 4kgs would be the most with this length on it's own.

 

[Redreuben]

It would need a false bottom yes, but why go down that track with a single vessel brewery?

Probably because I haven’t seen one working yet, I’ve seen an assembled one, (Robobrew) but not a working one
And I have a boiler and a hlt already.
My “current “ system (the one stashed in the garage) has a stainless bucket that floats in the boiler for a mash tun, so lots of stirring and temperature checks and the lautering is done in a separate vessel again.
I’m moving some time in the new year so when the plastic has recovered I’m going shopping big time.
Technology has gone ahead (and cheaper) big time since I did my last brew so some new stuff to get.
Last time around I was the only brewer I new using electricity, everybody used gas.
Here’s an idea for you just for fun, a Hermes system that used a coil of plastic tubing in a microwave cabinet. Turn on pump and microwave and zap ! Temperature boost.
Ha ha ha ️ ️ ️ Totally mental right !
Any brewers in Perth with a Guten/Grainfather/Braumeister/Robo want a brew day assistant ?

 

[Neil Buttriss]

I b

Right, got my replacement recirc arm fitted. Did another test run and clean yesterday with no leaks. So i reckon i am finally ready to go.

Anyone got any general guidelines around malt pipe overflow pipe size to kg grain? as in, roughly how many kg of grain does the small overflow pipe hold, vs using the overflow large pipe?

I brewed yesterday with 4.5kg grain bill and only needed the longer pipe, I brewed with 5.25kg and needed both. I would think anything over about 4.75kg would need both pipes

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Probably because I haven’t seen one working yet, I’ve seen an assembled one, (Robobrew) but not a working one
And I have a boiler and a hlt already.
My “current “ system (the one stashed in the garage) has a stainless bucket that floats in the boiler for a mash tun, so lots of stirring and temperature checks and the lautering is done in a separate vessel again.
I’m moving some time in the new year so when the plastic has recovered I’m going shopping big time.
Technology has gone ahead (and cheaper) big time since I did my last brew so some new stuff to get.
Last time around I was the only brewer I new using electricity, everybody used gas.
Here’s an idea for you just for fun, a Hermes system that used a coil of plastic tubing in a microwave cabinet. Turn on pump and microwave and zap ! Temperature boost.
Ha ha ha ️ ️ ️ Totally mental right !
Any brewers in Perth with a Guten/Grainfather/Braumeister/Robo want a brew day assistant ?

Guten is more user friendly than the BM, a couple of times with the BM I have forgotten to put in the bottom screen only realising after I have doughed in, impossible to do with the Guten. It is so easy to use you will have no need for your other equipment.

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

So today's brew went well. I made a post in the robo vs guten thread about the controller. When the 60 min was nearly finished by the timer on my phone the controller still had a time remaining of 16 minutes. It seems to stop counting when the temp drops to 99c then when it gets back to 100 it continues. Do not go by what the built in controller says. I'm not sure what controller comes with the ones that KK are selling but the original controllers are a bit ordinary. Anyone who has got a new guten should run a timer side by side to check the time elapsed. I only use the controller in manual mode.

When the smart pid controllers are back in stock I'll probably get one of those to upgrade it.

 

[Leyther]

I brewed a Belgian yesterday and came up against a few issues, first the recipe called for 20m at 45C, I have the older model and it will not allow you to go below 50C, probably not a massive issue. The grain bill was 6.7kg and to be frank thats too big for this machine, I had to have the top plate off and the bazooka over the overflow but when using the pump with the recirc liquid and grain where flowing down the holes for the handle so I tried blocking them up, that just resulted in the liquid overflowing the top of the tun, end result was I had to turn the pump off for the majority of the mash, this netted me very poor efficiency (~55%) and I missed my target OG by quite a margin even after a 9L sparge.

I think its safe to say 6KG is the limit for these 40L machine and then you will need to have the top plate off and watch the recirc carefully. Maybe time for an upgrade to the bigger machine