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GUTEN

Discussion in 'Gear and Equipment' started by wide eyed and legless, 1/3/17.

 

  1. goatchop41

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    Posted 22/2/19
    I believe that this is what he is referring to. I was wondering if it would fit the Guten. Seems that we now have confirmation. I might look in to it, as I'm looking to finally start using my chiller soon
     
  2. fdsaasdf

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    Posted 23/2/19
    I haven't seen a guten but thought they had a larger diameter than the robobrew 35.

    I have one of those screens and it fits perfectly in my MJ stainless fermenter, I use it to strain fruit chucked in loose. Worked a treat so far for rapsberries and blueberries.
     
    goatchop41 likes this.
  3. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 23/2/19
    Smaller dia, just, and then there is the grain basket retainer on the inside. The problem with a screen is they will filter out hop flowers but not the cold break and pellets. I think the dip tube will work along with the little mag drive pump, cheap alternative if cooling the wort with an immersion chiller.
     
  4. Fro-Daddy

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    Posted 23/2/19
    Pellets turn to mush and it stops them from touching the bottom of the kettle. Tons of pics online showing a 'hop cake' after the boil.
    Is cold break an issue going in to the fermenter? You can ditch the helix so that's no longer an issue.
     
  5. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 23/2/19
    Here is what Fix and Kunze have to say.
    Fix in “Principals of Brewing Science (2nd Edition)”:

    “The group of interest here is the long-chain, unsaturated fatty acids that are derived from malt. They are typically found in wort trub (i.e., particles suspended in the wort), which can consist of as much as 50% lipids (Meilgaard, 1977). Cloudy wort can contain anywhere from 5 to 40 times the unsaturated fatty-acid content of clear wort, an important fact because unsaturated fatty acids can have a significant negative effect even at low concentrations. On the positive side, fatty acids contribute to yeast viability via a number of mechanisms (see chapter 3), and they also inhibit the formation of some less pleasant acetate esters during fermentation (see chapter 3). On the negative side, they work against beer foam stability, as any fatty material does. Even more significantly, they play an important role in beer staling (see chapter 4). Thus, some investigations have reported that wort clarity (via trub removal) is essential (Zangrando, 1979), whereas other investigators have found some carryover of unsaturated fatty acids in the trub to be beneficial (Hough et al., 1981). In spite of these advantages, brewers still prefer clarified worts with minimum trub carryover, if for no other reason than the negative role wort-derived fatty acids play in beer staling. Another class of beer-staling constituents consists of fatty acids. In beer, fatty acids come from two sources, namely, unsaturated fatty acids from wort trub and saturated ones from yeast metabolism. As discussed in chapter 3, the saturated fatty acids can react with alcohols to form esters. The unsaturated fatty acids, on the other hand, are major players in beer staling. They tend to be fairly resistant to oxidation and spill over into the finished beer where they tend to produce “fatty or goaty notes.””

    Kunze in “Technology of Brewing and Malting (5th Edition)”:

    During malting the lipids are partly broken down and this breakdown is continued during mashing. This breakdown will later be of great interest to us. A large part of the lipids is later precipitated with the trub. Cloudy lautering and poor trub excretion lead to large amounts of free fatty acids in the wort, which the yeast cells require to produce new cell substances, but which can also contribute to a reduction in flavour stability.

    Removal of the coarse break (coarse trub). The break from the cast wort is now called coarse break, as well as boiled or hot break. It consists of large particles, 30 – 80 μm in size, which are slightly heavier than the wort and in general settle down well to form a compact mass if they are given sufficient time. The coarse break must be removed since it is not only of no value in further beer production,but also actually detrimental to quality:
    • Hinders wort clarification

    • Increases the amount of break-rich sediment and thereby increases the loss

    • Makes beer filtration more difficult if it is not removed at the right time.

    Whirlpool – Whirlpools have been installed for break removal in increasing numbers since about 1960. It is the most elegant method for hot break removal and is the least costly alternative of all trub removal methods.

    Cold break – At about 60 °C the previously clear wort will start to become turbid. This turbidity is due to small particles about 0.5 μm in diameter. This is therefore called fine, cool or cold break (cold trub). Because of its small size, cold break settles only with great difficulty…It has the property of adhering to other particles, e.g. yeast cells or air bubbles. When it adheres to yeast cells it decreases the yeast contact surface and thereby reduces the fermentation rate. This is referred to as “coating” the yeast. Cold break consists of protein-polyphenol compounds which precipitate to a greater extent in relatively cold media and partially dissolve again on warming. This means that wort on cooling to 5 °C still contains 14% of the total cold break in dissolved form. A residual amount of cold break at discharge of 120-160 mg/I dry matter is desirable [199]. A reduction of the cold break content to approximately this value can result in:

    • A more rounded beer flavor, particularly in the bitterness

    • An improvement of the beer foam (as a result of the precipitation of fatty acids),

    • An improvement of the flavour stability

    • A more intensive fermentation.

    To remove the cold break the following methods can be used (Sect. 3.9.4):
    • Filtration (using Perlite)

    • Flotation,

    • Sedimentation or

    • Separation.
    The cold break is only formed later after the coarse break has already been removed. Separate equipment is therefore required for the removal of coarse and cold break. Nowadays the cold break is not usually removed. A prerequisite for this, however, is an optimal hot break removal and fermentative yeast (assimilation yeast). With a powerful course of fermentation, a distinctive flavour, good flavour stability and good foam stability can be expected.
     
  6. fdsaasdf

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    Posted 23/2/19
    The bottom screen in the Robobrew 65 reliably keeps most of the trub cone on top of it in my experience. Can't see an issue with cold break as it forms inside the no-chill cubes without detrimental effect...
     
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  7. Reg Holt

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    Posted 23/2/19
    When no chilling it makes it relatively simple to remove, pour into fermenter carefully and the last drop either save for starters or filter it through a couple of paper towels into fermenter.
     
  8. fdsaasdf

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    Posted 23/2/19
    I wouldn't be putting paper towels anywhere near my sanitised fermenter at this stage of the process. You could use a paint strainer bag but I don't bother, everything in the cube ends up in the fermenter.
     
  9. Reg Holt

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    Posted 24/2/19
    I should have mentioned that I sanitise the towels beforehand, some cold break will still get through, not enough to cause any concern. My own preference is to keep it out of the fermenter than in, for reasons as stated above.
     
  10. poacher

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    Posted 24/2/19
    My bottom filter screen was a loose fit with a few gaps on the 30Lt Guten & letting a bit of grain through, fitted a braumeister 20lt malt pipe seal.
    Works a treat.

    IMG_1041.jpeg IMG_1039.jpeg IMG_1038.jpeg
     
  11. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 24/2/19
    Good thinking mate I have some spare BM seals, never thought of checking the size, is it a pain to get the screen in?
     
  12. poacher

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    Posted 24/2/19
    Slips straight in like it was made for it.
     
  13. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 24/2/19
    Well, there you go. Got spares hanging in my shed and never thought to try them, though I have never really had trouble with anything getting past the screen like some seem to have.

    Another thing I noticed on my last brew day was I reduced the wattage to 1800w during the mash cycle and never got any scorch marks.
     
  14. Grok

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    Posted 25/2/19
    gas booster coil .JPG
     
  15. Grok

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    Posted 25/2/19
    Here's a few ideas for peeps, my rather crude but effective gas booster coil using the on board pump. I use it to get to boil quicker after sparging, and of course it sanitizers all the pipes and tap as well. A decent heat exchange hot box would be better, but I knocked up in a hurry to try the idea, and like a lot of things, becomes semi permanent (lazy me!).The 2 tap brass manifold is from Bunnings garden dept, Holman brand I think, with silicon hoses it is way better and more versatile than the stupid metal pipe the unit comes with. Actually that metal hook pipe is good used in reverse on the end of my filling hose, sits on the top of the vessels nicely whilst filling. Used the quick connect part on the new brass manifold. The silicon hose is way better and easier to poke thru the top lid hole and wetting down the new grist when grain gets poured in for mashing. I've had one of these units for a couple of years direct from the China manufacturer, seems to go ok, had switch melt on me and stop working half way thru a brew, just a one off crappy switch I think, replaced with one from Jaycar, no problems since.
     
  16. Hop To It

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    Posted 2/3/19
    Can anyone please tell me the rough maximum capacities (total, mash, pre and post boil) of the Guten 50?

    Cannot seem to find it and a mate is trying to compare it to the brew zilla 65L.
     
  17. lespaul

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    Posted 2/3/19
    Been thinking about the wort scorching. I've tried using low power settings to alleviate but didn't seem to stop it. I still think I'm getting grains in my boil so the idea of a brau seal is a great idea! I was planning on using a silicone hose but I'm really glad someone else has already troubleshooted.
    I was wondering if maybe polishing the heating element would help? Only concern would be any residue left from the cleaning product.
    Hopefully a polish on the element would discourage anything sticking to it. Any merit?
     
  18. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 2/3/19
    It is in this thread, dibbz posted it sometime ago 46.7 or 47.6 litres (can't remember which) maximum boil.
    A good polished finish over the elements could deter scorching, I have dropped my wattage to 1700 and I just get a milky looking residue over the element which wipes off quite easily.
     
  19. lespaul

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    Posted 2/3/19
    How would you go about polishing though? I'm worried stainless polish is not the best thing to have in the urn
     
  20. wide eyed and legless

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    Posted 2/3/19
    I've used wet and dry from around a medium grit to fine and finishing off with a paste of calcium carbonate to get a mirror finish on stainless steel. But not on the Guten have you tried lowering the mash wattage? That is where the scorching seems to come from, I have emptied the kettle a couple of times after the mash and cleaned the base, since mashing at 1700 w the problem seems to have improved.
     

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