GUTEN

[malt and barley blues]

Thanks for the clarification. My Guten was one of the 'direct from China' jobbies, before KK started bringing them in, and the instructions that came with it are very scant. I had assumed that they would be better with KK selling them now (hopefully they've made their own instruction booklet!), but I wasn't 100% sure

I got mine direct from China just after WEAL, clearly written in the instructions, I have also tried to find Grainfather recomendations for boil and pump, same pump nd the answers I have found is not to run during the boil.

 

[ABG]

I don't think WEAL's or KK's advice is needed for this one, anyone who has a Guten and read the instructions, it clearly states under, Circulation use of pump. Circulation of pump not necessary during boil process. Excessive heating of pump may cause damage.
As the pumps of the Robobrew and Guten are the same and Keg Land states it is OK to run the pump during boil I think I would be erring on the side of caution and not running the pump simply because there is no need.

Kegland states it's okay to use and they stand behind their products. I've had 2 issues with product purchased from them - crap QA in both cases - both products replaced at no cost. If it's the same pump, one would think Keg King would stand behind it as well, if only to keep up with the level of service being offered by their largest competitor.

As stated in my post above, running the pump during the boil is essential if you are going to run the pump during the chill. How else are you going to sanitise the pump and the wort in it?

 

[malt and barley blues]

First of all it is not from Keg King that it is not a good thing to run the pump during the boil it is from the manufacturers. Sure they say it is OK for a short while but if you are doing a 90 minute boil it is a no no.
Secondly why run the pump during the boil, what is it you are trying to achieve?

 

[krz]

First of all it is not from Keg King that it is not a good thing to run the pump during the boil it is from the manufacturers. Sure they say it is OK for a short while but if you are doing a 90 minute boil it is a no no.
Secondly why run the pump during the boil, what is it you are trying to achieve?

Fair point, I'll probably only run it now the last 10 mins of the boil to sterilize, and then whilst cooling.
Learn something new every week

 

[ABG]

First of all it is not from Keg King that it is not a good thing to run the pump during the boil it is from the manufacturers. Sure they say it is OK for a short while but if you are doing a 90 minute boil it is a no no.
Secondly why run the pump during the boil, what is it you are trying to achieve?

Re-read my last two posts on this thread. I've stated why twice. Is it the reading or comprehension you're having difficulties with?

 

[ABG]

Fair point, I'll probably only run it now the last 10 mins of the boil to sterilize, and then whilst cooling.
Learn something new every week

Almost exactly what I do, except I run mine for 15 minutes.

 

[Mya]

As stated in my post above, running the pump during the boil is essential if you are going to run the pump during the chill. How else are you going to sanitise the pump and the wort in it?

You kill 99.99% of bacteria, protozoa, and viruses at temperatures above 70 degC in under a minute.

CDC recommend boiling for a minute "just to be sure" to sterilise water. Boiling water is used just so anyone can be absolutely sure it has exceeded 70 degC (otherwise you'd need a thermometer, too hard to do most of the time if sterilising water eg in bush).

Boiling temperature itself is excessively high and 15 minutes is definitely excessively high.

Even 1 minute at boiling is more than is required to sterilise, plus it's only the wort in the riser tube on the pump outlet that might not get to above 70, although I still reckon it will after 60 minutes of boiling (the wort in the pump definitely will just from convection).

Even running after the boil before you start cooling will be sufficient.

Degradation of materials such as the pump rubber orings/seal from temperature will be time based, so the closer you are to the max temp the shorter it will last before failing. Minimising the time at elevated temperatures will increase the life span of the pump. It's not as though you magically get to a certain temperature and suddenly the materials fail, running with elevated temperatures through the pump will cause premature wear (albeit quite small if you are well below the maximum temp).

 

[malt and barley blues]

So you guys who are using the return pipe to whirlpool, are you filling the fermenter from the return pipe?

 

[ABG]

You kill 99.99% of bacteria, protozoa, and viruses at temperatures above 70 degC in under a minute.

CDC recommend boiling for a minute "just to be sure" to sterilise water. Boiling water is used just so anyone can be absolutely sure it has exceeded 70 degC (otherwise you'd need a thermometer, too hard to do most of the time if sterilising water eg in bush).

Boiling temperature itself is excessively high and 15 minutes is definitely excessively high.

Even 1 minute at boiling is more than is required to sterilise, plus it's only the wort in the riser tube on the pump outlet that might not get to above 70, although I still reckon it will after 60 minutes of boiling (the wort in the pump definitely will just from convection).

Even running after the boil before you start cooling will be sufficient.

Degradation of materials such as the pump rubber orings/seal from temperature will be time based, so the closer you are to the max temp the shorter it will last before failing. Minimising the time at elevated temperatures will increase the life span of the pump. It's not as though you magically get to a certain temperature and suddenly the materials fail, running with elevated temperatures through the pump will cause premature wear (albeit quite small if you are well below the maximum temp).

Really good points you raise there. I've been working on sterilising the wort by exposing the wort in the pump to boiling temperatures for 15 minutes, which given I'm not putting it into a cube is unnecessary. All I really need to do is sanitise it as rightly pointed out above. I'll change my practice to turning the pump on 1 minute before flame out.

It's good to challenge thinking. @Mya I reckon your challenge to my way of thinking will give me a longer pump life with no real consequences to the quality of my beer. Cheers

 

[Mya]

Similarly, I've seen recommendations of putting your immersion cooler into your boiling wort 15 minutes before the boil has finished.

This is just overkill!

You can put the cooler in basically as soon as you finish the boil, it will still above 70 degC and you can let it sit there for a minute if you'd like.

I find putting the immersion cooler in during the boil will just inhibit good interaction between your hops and the wort.

 

[Abird89]

Similarly, I've seen recommendations of putting your immersion cooler into your boiling wort 15 minutes before the boil has finished.

This is just overkill!

You can put the cooler in basically as soon as you finish the boil, it will still above 70 degC and you can let it sit there for a minute if you'd like.

I find putting the immersion cooler in during the boil will just inhibit good interaction between your hops and the wort.

I agree. I always give it a quick hose to get any dust off and then just whack it in at the end

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Kegland states it's okay to use and they stand behind their products. I've had 2 issues with product purchased from them - crap QA in both cases - both products replaced at no cost. If it's the same pump, one would think Keg King would stand behind it as well, if only to keep up with the level of service being offered by their largest competitor.

As stated in my post above, running the pump during the boil is essential if you are going to run the pump during the chill. How else are you going to sanitise the pump and the wort in it?

When Keg Land states anything, its always better to check. The manufacturer certainly doesn't recommend going higher than 80 C. I bought one yesterday for whirl pooling from the ball valve.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

So today tried the whirl pool with the pump, started off just dandy, as the wort cooled the flow petered out. Without a shadow of a doubt it is the break material clogging up the helix. Siphoned the wort into the fermenter. Next brew will be with a dip tube made with a helix off cut, elbow and reducer with a fine s/steel mesh fitted in the shoulder of the reducer.

 

[Fro-Daddy]

I know you aren't a fan, but have you tried out a bottom screen before?
My bottom screen is amazing, 160g in the last boil, then chilled and it drained perfectly.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

Yes, I really like the helix, that works brilliant if it is going into the cube hot, I would just have liked to get it to work when the wort has cooled. I will give the shorter dip tube type a try with the next brew.
I can get the Brau Meister to drain perfectly without any screens there, just because it has a small aperture on the tap.

 

[krz]

An idea!

Suppose you cool the wort then remove the immersion chiller.
Then create a whirlpool using a paddle, before pumping into the fermenter.

Wouldn't that minimise amount of debris picked up by the pump?

 

[FarsideOfCrazy]

I know you aren't a fan, but have you tried out a bottom screen before?
My bottom screen is amazing, 160g in the last boil, then chilled and it drained perfectly.

Where did you get a bottom screen from?

 

[Fro-Daddy]

It came with the Robobrew

KL sell the screen separately though, could check the diameter to see if it would fit?

 

[wide eyed and legless]

An idea!

Suppose you cool the wort then remove the immersion chiller.
Then create a whirlpool using a paddle, before pumping into the fermenter.

Wouldn't that minimise amount of debris picked up by the pump?

It would, but that wouldn't sanitise the tap. What I wanted to achieve was to be still able to use the helix, my thinking was if I got the wort flowing through the helix initially that it may not block as the wort cooled.
So it is back to the drawing board, pretty confident that the pick up will work.

 

[goatchop41]

It would, but that wouldn't sanitise the tap.

Just drain off a little bit of wort through the tap before chilling. Sanitization problem solved