Fro-Daddy
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@Keg King @CEO Keg King Can you please add the 70L false bottom to the website?
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Now that does make a lot of sense, saves a lot of room too. I suppose if one wanted less pressure then a trim of the spring or a replacement spring for that matter. I expect they are a very cheap alternative to the spunding valves and gauges out there.
Fro-Daddy
Well-Known Member
Why are you cleaning it so often?
If krausen is getting in it, it will surely get in the PRV as well?
goatchop41
Well-Known Member
Much less safe as well.
There are plenty of examples of people in FB brewing groups and forums who blame the manufacturer or quality of their pressure fermenting vessel for it exploding (several users on this forum, in particular, who seem to make a point of posting every single one that they see), yet once they're questioned about the circumstances it becomes clear that they were relying on the PRV to vent pressure, and the PRV has failed (stuck, etc.). It's just a bad idea
I have never read of a PRV failing, what has been failing is the units themselves even as low as 10 PSI. The pressure in those Fermzilla's have never got to the activating pressure of the PRV before failing.
Also if it was the case, which it isn't, of people relying on the PRV to vent an over pressurised unit, that would mean the Blowtie or whatever other spunding valve was failing also.
If the PRV arrangement is badly designed then this will definitely cause problems. Its one of the reasons why you should only choose PET tanks that have the ability to go above 5 bar also. Once the pressure gets really high the yeast action dies right off. Sadly there are products out there which are exploding at much lower pressures than that. Its one of the reasons why we went to a lot of effort to make the strongest tanks and show them off lifting a loaded ute. Not seen any other supplier able to match this.
Obviously cleaning the PRV and checking it should be standard procedure for anyone pressure fermenting. Also make sure when you purchase something that the PRV orifice is not too small. We have seen units with really small holes which can become a problem as they don't allow gas to escape quickly enough if someone makes a mistake with a regulator.
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golfandbrew
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Where does the PRV go in the Guten?
Grmblz
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It's not a pressure rated vessel so doesn't need one, it's KK's version of the KL Brewzilla.
It's an "all in one" brewing system not a fermenter.
Cian Doyle
Well-Known Member
I had an infection in one of my fermenters, stripped the posts and PRV gave the fermenter a good clean every thing was fine. Using a different fermenter on another brew, got the same infection. Realised it could be coming from the tubes and Blowtie as I start at negative pressure, sure enough after cleaning I was rid of any more infections. Easier to clean all the accessories to the vessel than to throw out a brew. The PRV's are an easily cleaned item
goatchop41
Well-Known Member
This sentence makes me think that you didn't actually read my post. My post was relating to idiotic brewers who don't use a spunding valve at all, and are relying on the PRV as their only form of pressure control
goatchop41
Well-Known Member
That would have to be a pretty big mistake to make - they'd have to absolutely crank the pressure in one swift motion, and have absolutely no idea what they were doing. Anyone who is stupid enough to do that probably shouldn't be allowed to use most powered things in our society (power tools, cars, etc.)
Who are the people who pressure ferment without a spunding valve? That's a first for me.
Grmblz
Well-Known Member
Errr, the ones that use a PRV as a spunding valve?
imho it's one of those "sounded like a good idea at the time" but strokes for folks as they say.
I just can't get my head round someone pressure fermenting without a spunding valve! They would have to be either mad, or the owner of a FermZilla.Errr, the ones that use a PRV as a spunding valve?
imho it's one of those "sounded like a good idea at the time" but strokes for folks as they say.
goatchop41
Well-Known Member
Again, read my actual post. Your reply once again shows that you didn't. I stated that I had seen multiple examples of it being done across social media and forums.
Your overzealous need to attack anything relating to KL on this forum seems to be clouding your ability to read and think critically (which seems to happen often). It's been going on for years now and is quite frankly more than a little sad
I read your post you didn't say they were not using a spunding valve, I suggest you read your own post.
As far as I have seen it is only the KL FermZilla which have a problem with exploding, if you can show me a KK pressure vessel exploding I will edit my post. Good Luck.
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Grmblz
Well-Known Member
Our little PRV's can, and do block, as can the poppets on our posts, I think it's incumbent on the users to ensure that the pressure rating of the vessel (whatever that may be) is not exceeded.
I've mentioned it before, if you chuck a sh*t load of pellets into a lively brew with insufficient head space expect things to clog up, it's what blow off tubes are for.
We have a conundrum, "minimise head space" fair enough, "ferment under pressure" (not sure why but it's all the rage) so fair enough, but then we want to brew an Imperial Neipa, result: clogged poppets/PRV's, and lines, and taps.
Sure there's ways and means of doing it, but judging by the amount of failed pressure vessels on social media a lot of people are unaware of how to do it safely.
I suspect a large number of failures are due to the inexperience/incompetence of the users.
It's pretty obvious that KL have had some issues, otherwise they wouldn't have offered replacements for units with stress cracks around the necks of some of their fermenters, as far as I am aware KK have not had similar issues.
KK fermenters are made in Australia, KL's are made in China, using different methods, and a different design, KK's have a higher pressure rating, and a somewhat fool proof design, so we're not comparing apples with apples.
End of day look at both, decide what features you want, and how much you want to spend.
I've got fermenters from both companies, and haven't blown up any of them yet, but then again I have a vague idea of what I'm doing.
I've mentioned it before, if you chuck a sh*t load of pellets into a lively brew with insufficient head space expect things to clog up, it's what blow off tubes are for.
We have a conundrum, "minimise head space" fair enough, "ferment under pressure" (not sure why but it's all the rage) so fair enough, but then we want to brew an Imperial Neipa, result: clogged poppets/PRV's, and lines, and taps.
Sure there's ways and means of doing it, but judging by the amount of failed pressure vessels on social media a lot of people are unaware of how to do it safely.
I suspect a large number of failures are due to the inexperience/incompetence of the users.
It's pretty obvious that KL have had some issues, otherwise they wouldn't have offered replacements for units with stress cracks around the necks of some of their fermenters, as far as I am aware KK have not had similar issues.
KK fermenters are made in Australia, KL's are made in China, using different methods, and a different design, KK's have a higher pressure rating, and a somewhat fool proof design, so we're not comparing apples with apples.
End of day look at both, decide what features you want, and how much you want to spend.
I've got fermenters from both companies, and haven't blown up any of them yet, but then again I have a vague idea of what I'm doing.
golfandbrew
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Thanks mate. I am well aware that the Guten is not a fermenter. I was hoping others might see that as well. Looks like only CaptainMochSnot got the message.
goatchop41
Well-Known Member
So what you're saying then is that you are just unable to perform deductive reasoning? Stating that users are relying on a PRV to be their method of venting pressure should make it very clear to someone of your experience that they are not using a spunding valve - because in that case the spunding valve would clearly be the method of pressure venting
You have mostly helpful (and sometimes valuable) contributions to this forum, but at times you (and your absolutely blind, zealot-like bias against KL) can be absolutely insufferable.
golfandbrew
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Looking to get things back on track...anyone pick up the standing false bottom yet?
goatchop41
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I'm just about to get my hands on one for my 40L unit. I've heard good reports on a couple of brewing groups on FB.
Thought that I should get one as I've recently upgraded myself from no-chill to using a CFC, but the pump blocked the very first time that I tried to use the CFC
Dozer71
Well-Known Member
Got one in the last batch available late last year. Does catch a lot and forms a nice "trub cake" on it. Shall take a pic next time. So it works.
Also it has a couple of lift points but do need to give it a bend to extract past the malt pipe supports. So for cleaning usually lay the guten on its side and hose out the trub then take out the fb to clean properly.
Also it has a couple of lift points but do need to give it a bend to extract past the malt pipe supports. So for cleaning usually lay the guten on its side and hose out the trub then take out the fb to clean properly.
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What I am saying is, I am not going to rely on hearsay on whether anyone is not using a spunding valve. I just can't imagine anyone doing it so it isn't quite clear, whether a spunding valve is being used, it could well be they are relying on the PRV if the spunding valve fails to operate. Many spunding valves have a pressure capability higher than that of the PRV, I can then see where a new user could accidentally adjust the spunding valve higher than the PRV. Those PRV'S with the 10 AND 15 PSI rating are a good idea they are a simple poppet with little chance of them failing, that type have been used for many years on pressure vessels without cause for concern.
Another question would be with the double whammy of pressure and dissolved co2 which is toxic to yeast, would the yeast keep performing as the pressure crept up?
I am a product of my own upbringing. I have a moral code which I live by and expect others to do the same, we all know the difference between right and wrong.
But it isn't just the lack of a moral code of conduct at Keg Land, but also the lack of a legal code of conduct. We have read of the court case they lost, and the underhanded appropriation of trade marks, which they have now had to give up. There are lots of other misdemeanors false advertising, fake reviews, infringing patents. I would be willing to bet there will be more in the future.
If they had started the business in a proper manner, and carried out that business in a proper manner I wouldn't have anything to complain about.
golfandbrew
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Been thinking of getting a CFC or PC myself. What's the initial temperature drop like? I use a PET fermenter so I was thinking I would have to recirc back into the kettle for a bit before going into the fermenter.
Mate, I'm using the grainfather CFC with a PET fermenter. I just throttle back the flow using the tap on the pump output pipe and using an inline Blichmann Thrumometer to keep an eye on the temperature into the fermenter. Once it's around half full you can safely pump 40c wort into the ferm as it mixes with the cooler stuff. This is my technique when using kviek, she's ready to go at 35C!
duncbrewer
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I start to pump it out slowly at 45C in boiler into the PET fermenter and let it fall thru the air to the base of the fermenter to start the aeration.
It seems to be about 35 C with this method .
It seems to be about 35 C with this method .
mynameisrodney
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Just got delivery of my 70L guten this week (after 15A power point went in last Friday). I'm hoping to be able to brew on Sunday. Just trying to figure out all the things I need to do before my first run. So far I have, clean everything obviously, calibrate temp, 'calibrate' sight glass, measure boil off rate, check all conections are leak proof, and just have a general tinker to familiarise myself with everything. Is there anything else I should really be doing? Any gotchas to look out for? Planning on just doing a single batch maris otter mosaic smash for my first run to keep it simple.
Cheers,
Chris
Cheers,
Chris
Magicalpancake
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I think you've pretty much got it down. I had a back up siphon just in case the pump got blocked but that was doing a big west coast
