Great head, flat(ish) beer

[mosto]

I'm no expert but I would definitely go for a shorter thinner line. As others have said around 2m of 5mm line (which is what I have) seems to work well. This length means there is around 40 ml of beer sitting in the line. I find my first pour is a tad flat and I believe it's because the CO2 doesn't make it's way into the beer line (I carb at serving pressure like yourself). With 7m of 8mm line I calculate you have about 350 ml of beer in your line. Given it's bunnings line and not proper beer line, it may possible that, while it is food grade, it may let some CO2 out, but I'm only guessing at that.

 

[RobW]

Cool. I didnt go higher than 100 because I was under the impression that 100 was lots. and i thought something else had to be wrong.

If I get flow restrictor taps does that mean I can not have 10 km of beer line?

Yes. Flow control taps make life simple.
I've used as little as 1 metre of line between keg and tap.

 

[pcmfisher]

Whether it is 2m of 5mm or 7m of 8mm is irrelevant to your carbonation levels. (Not that I would recommend the Bunnings tube)
Carbonation levels are determined by the temperature of your beer and your regulator serving pressure. (once balanced, that is)

You say "seems flat". Does that mean it as actually flat or just looks lifeless and flat in the glass?
How do you make your beer?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Whether it is 2m of 5mm or 7m of 8mm is irrelevant to your carbonation levels. (Not that I would recommend the Bunnings tube)
Carbonation levels are determined by the temperature of your beer and your regulator serving pressure. (once balanced, that is)

You say "seems flat". Does that mean it as actually flat or just looks lifeless and flat in the glass?
How do you make your beer?

Theoretically you are correct, but beer line will allow CO2 to escape and air in over time and it will find a "flatter" equilibriumwithin the line. Hence why if you pour your first beer after a few days of it sitting the first few mLs from the line are not the greatest in terms of taste or carbonation. So the size of the line will effect the amount of losses and hence contribute to the problem the OP is having.

 

[acarey]

Whether it is 2m of 5mm or 7m of 8mm is irrelevant to your carbonation levels. (Not that I would recommend the Bunnings tube)
Carbonation levels are determined by the temperature of your beer and your regulator serving pressure. (once balanced, that is)

You say "seems flat". Does that mean it as actually flat or just looks lifeless and flat in the glass?
How do you make your beer?

seems flat, I guess means "doesnt taste very fizzy and next to no bubbles in the glass (those that are there are very fine)"

I BIAB in a burko

 

[Black n Tan]

Whether it is 2m of 5mm or 7m of 8mm is irrelevant to your carbonation levels. (Not that I would recommend the Bunnings tube)
Carbonation levels are determined by the temperature of your beer and your regulator serving pressure. (once balanced, that is)

You say "seems flat". Does that mean it as actually flat or just looks lifeless and flat in the glass?
How do you make your beer?

The length or type of beer line will not affect the carbonation levels in the keg, however the beer line length and type can affect the carbonation levels in the glass. Quality beer line has a very smooth nylon inner layer to stop CO2 breaking out of solution and low gas permeability to maintain the carbonation level. Bunnings tubing is unlikely to be very smooth or have low gas impermeability, thus providing many nucleation points so gas will come out of the beer and also allow the CO2 to diffuse through the walls of the line. Combine this with a 7m run (probably wrapped around the top of the kegerator where it is warmer) and you could easily have poorly carbonated beer reaching your glass.

 

[huez]

How long are you "forgetting" it for? Beer line is probably part of the problem but id be inclined to think you arent giving it enough time to reach full carbonation. And like mikk said, go buy some valpor beer line, its probably cheaper then the bunnings crap anyway

 

[pcmfisher]

Yes, good point. Smooth, quality, and short lines are ideal.
This is the first thing I would be changing.

I would have thought that any co2 escaping through permeable lines would be replaced by co2 from the keg and would not affect carbonation.
Unlike warm taps, or as stated, 20ft of line coiled up in a warm part of the fridge.

 

[acarey]

How long are you "forgetting" it for? Beer line is probably part of the problem but id be inclined to think you arent giving it enough time to reach full carbonation. And like mikk said, go buy some valpor beer line, its probably cheaper then the bunnings crap anyway

the longest a beer has lasted in my fridge is about 2 months. It still had the issue

 

[acarey]

Yes, good point. Smooth, quality, and short lines are ideal.
This is the first thing I would be changing.

I would have thought that any co2 escaping through permeable lines would be replaced by co2 from the keg and would not affect carbonation.
Unlike warm taps, or as stated, 20ft of line coiled up in a warm part of the fridge.

How do you balance the system with short lines though? I'd assume flow controlled taps, but I dont have any.

Will give the better quality line a go as per suggestions above.

 

[Black n Tan]

How do you balance the system with short lines though? I'd assume flow controlled taps, but I dont have any.

Will give the better quality line a go as per suggestions above.

Using 4 or 5mm ID line will significantly shorten the length required to maintain balance. Narrower line has more resistance which means you can use shorter length and keep your system balanced. From memory I think I needed 2.4 metres of 5mm ID line to balance my system. Quality beer line is cheap; flow-control taps are expensive and far from a necessity. Swap your line and see if the problem is reduced. Should cost you just a few dollars.

 

[Dae Tripper]

So what part does temperature play in this? I thought as cold as possible, but I am having similar problems. What would be a good target temp?

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Temperature affects the properties of the beer and more importantly the CO2 and at what concentration it will be soluble in the beer. Hence for the same carbonation level you need less pressure to maintain it when the beer and gas are colder.

 

[manticle]

So what part does temperature play in this? I thought as cold as possible, but I am having similar problems. What would be a good target temp?

CO2 will go into the beer under pressure more quickly at lower temps. It will come out of the beer more quickly at higher temps so for example cold keg/warm lines or warm glass.
Temp should also be dictated by personal preference - I for one hate super fizzy beer at 1 degree.

 

[mfeighan]

If you can get the 4mm stuff as you like higher carbonation levels. Its a pain in the butt to put over the barbs but worth it in my opinion.

 

[acarey]

Hi All,

So today I went and replaced all my lines with the 4mm valpar?? (whatever it was) recommended above. Cranked the reg to 140 kpa and it pours really nicely, Possibly a bit slow but still nicely. Started with 3 metres.

Going to leave it at this higher pressure for a week and check back in next weekend to see if the carbonation levels are to my liking. Thanks heaps for all the help and advice.

******* hell though, that stuff was a right c#nt to get over my various barbs, my fingers are burnt and cut up I'm going to wear the slow pouring so I don't have to go through that saga again.

I had planned for a dry novemeber but I need to test flow rates etc and don't want to waste beer, so dry november is out the window in the name of science h34r:

 

[manticle]

Dry November is a silly idea anyway.

 

[antiphile]

Great to hear you are getting closer to solving the problem, acarey. You can ease your conscience about missing Dry November by not using a razor on your upper lip tomorrow for Movember.

 

[wombil]

Dunnow about all the science but I have el cheapo taps and less than a metre of line,Think its 4mm,2 kegs in old fridge at 3 deg C.
Set at 70 kpa.Pours perfectly.
Suppose I'm just lucky.