Get into O2 guys, if you're serious about nicer beer

[altone]

Can't see a size for the Supercheap bottle online. Is only $33 though.

That looks awfully like a rebadged Bernzomatic bottle - the welding kits look like it too.
so probably 40.1g

edit: just checked online and they are indeed 40.1g
If you live in QLD Gettoolsdirect.com.au have them for $31.62 if you have a store nearby.
Other places, gasweld.com.au have them for $30.90 - branded Bernzomatic.

Only connection with either store is, a Google search and I get my BBQ gas from Gasweld

Sorry - final edit, you can also get them free post on fleabay for $39.80 if you live in some ****** beautiful place away from the city.

 

[professional_drunk]

is it easy/possible to over-oxygenate? are there dire consequences?

From my experience, yes.
I once pitched nottingham yeast and oxygenated for 40s. Got that soggy cardboard flavour of oxidation which I couldn't put down to my processes.

Rules of thumb from experience:

• Don't oxy any dried yeasts, it's not necessary.
• American and German yeasts get 40s 1gL of o2 for average gravity.
• English yeasts don't require as much and so get 10s 1gL of o2 for average gravity.

YMMV.

 

[Kingy]

Are you guys getting lower fg's using 02?

 

[Coldspace]

From my experience, yes.
I once pitched nottingham yeast and oxygenated for 40s. Got that soggy cardboard flavour of oxidation which I couldn't put down to my processes.

Rules of thumb from experience:

• Don't oxy any dried yeasts, it's not necessary.
• American and German yeasts get 40s 1gL of o2 for average gravity.
• English yeasts don't require as much and so get 10s 1gL of o2 for average gravity.

YMMV.

Not saying your wrong, but my experiments have proved diff,

I've been running my ales, chilled to 19, 2.5 ltrs a minute for between 60 and 90 secs depending on grav.
All turned out excellent.

Lagers, 2.5 ltrs minute for 2 mins. All at 8-9 degrees, turning out excellent. After lag from cold pitch.

We have oxygenated friends kits and bits worts , all using us 05 dried yeast. 1.5 pkts pitched at 19 degrees. All turned out great and better than the paint stirrer .

Lyre bird cycles or MHB can chime in on the scientific explanations, but basically diff temps of wort will hold diff levels of O2 .

You can possibly over do it, I did read somewhere I think wyeast or somewhere that it's very hard for homebrewer to over do it unless you go real hard.

My purging rates for me seem to be good enough for me... I am not that worried by my rates as I just got tips from others here and other sites.

If you have had oxidation issues before it would of happened after fermentation finishes, not before, and I highly dought it was from over doing the O2 at the start with the rates you posted.

Just my 2 cents, could be wrong but I'm still experimenting myself and it's all heading into the right direction for me.

Cheers

 

[Goose]

Are you guys getting lower fg's using 02?

no but I got a much slower start

I found out when I realised my bottle was empty on this particular brew....

 

[Phoney]

Lyre bird cycles or MHB can chime in on the scientific explanations, but basically diff temps of wort will hold diff levels of O2 .

It's high school science. Colder water can hold more dissolved oxygen than warmer water, with 4C being the saturation point. It's also why zooplankton / phytoplankton density is greater in colder oceans than warm tropical oceans - thats why the latter are clearer and bluer. But I digress, that has nothing to do with beer.

 

[Rocker1986]

Please keep us posted, I would be interested in the results.

Regardless though, I have just ordered a wand and am piecing a set together at present following the feedback from this thread.

Will do mate. I'm gonna pick up a wand from Craftbrewer on Thursday along with a few other things. Now that I have a decent enough shopping list I figure it's worth driving there.. it's a bit far for my liking just for one item h34r:

 

[Coodgee]

From my experience, yes.
I once pitched nottingham yeast and oxygenated for 40s. Got that soggy cardboard flavour of oxidation which I couldn't put down to my processes.

Rules of thumb from experience:

• Don't oxy any dried yeasts, it's not necessary.
• American and German yeasts get 40s 1gL of o2 for average gravity.
• English yeasts don't require as much and so get 10s 1gL of o2 for average gravity.

YMMV.

Thanks that's an interesting perspective. I wonder if we are getting a bit carried away here with the "magic of oxygen"

 

[MHB]

Well if the yeast does more reproducing because it has more O2 available, it stands to reason you will have a longer lag time to get the higher population.
You will however probably get a lower FG, and get there faster, all things being done properly less than 7 days (usually about 4 days).

If you have a read of the following I think Fermentis recommend aeration after pitching their dry yeast as being fine idea.
View attachment SafaleUS05.pdf

"Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of
the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the
yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes
and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration."

Mark

 

[Adr_0]

Well if the yeast does more reproducing because it has more O2 available, it stands to reason you will have a longer lag time to get the higher population.
You will however probably get a lower FG, and get there faster, all things being done properly less than 7 days (usually about 4 days).

If you have a read of the following I think Fermentis recommend aeration after pitching their dry yeast as being fine idea.

SafaleUS05.pdf

"Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of
the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the
yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes
and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration."

Mark

I was about to ask why dry yeasts won't appreciate dissolved O2, but there you go.

 

[Coldspace]

Thanks that's an interesting perspective. I wonder if we are getting a bit carried away here with the "magic of oxygen"

Could be... I always get excited by my brewing toys, love this hobby but finding my beers and mates are better, but depends on other things been in balance. Yes O2 is not the magic bullet, just another piece of the puzzle, lots of other things to get right as well. But making some very nice beers ATM

Yes, MHB , have noticed a little longer lag, due to the breeding program going on . But as we generally all under pitch a little compared to say bigger breweries , then wouldn't a little longer lag, and a bigger breeding population make the beer a little better all things been equal.

My taste buds recon so. All that matters to me.

 

[Mr B]

Well if the yeast does more reproducing because it has more O2 available, it stands to reason you will have a longer lag time to get the higher population.
You will however probably get a lower FG, and get there faster, all things being done properly less than 7 days (usually about 4 days).

If you have a read of the following I think Fermentis recommend aeration after pitching their dry yeast as being fine idea.

SafaleUS05.pdf

"Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of
the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the
yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes
and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration."

Mark

Would this mean that a larger pitch would do the same?

I get that there can be overpitching issues, so I guess the thing is how much does the growth phase contribute to flavour (or not contribute to flavour), as opposed to the alchohol production phase (based on my (hopefully correct) understanding that yeast first grows, then produces alc)?

This line of thinking may result in requiring a starter equal to the volume of yeast the batch size will produce (so cannot be correct)?

Incidentally, I have two overflowing fermentors in my fridge. Has become incereasingly common. I put it down to maybe process improvements and using nutrient.

Edit: Or that my shaking of the cube is improving.......

 

[MHB]

Not necessarily, there are benefits to having the yeast spend some time reproducing in the wort, a highly overpitched beer can have other problems.
At the "right" pitch rate and the "right" DO level the yeast will consume all the Oxygen and other nutrients in the wort that we want removed at or about the same time, this is actually better for the beer flavour, stability and ultimately for the yeast health if you are looking to repatch the yeast.

Yeast will go through a series of steps once pitched, first there is a period of acclimatisation, then the yeast starts to reproduce - until any one of the things that limit the population happen (usually O2 runs out) then the beer starts making Alcohol and at this stage starts to make most of the esters that we associate with Ale brewing (these are minimised in Lager brewing by bigger pitches (~+50%) and much cooler fermenting temperatures).

I'm not trying to overcomplicate the process, the reverse actually, it really can be complex if you want to dig into yeast far enough.
Remember hat you don't need to pitch a starter, just the yeast in it (slurry), get the population you want then cool it till it settles, syphon off most of the unneeded liquor on top of the yeast, adjust the slurry temperature to the wort temperature, aerate then pitch.

Oxygen and all the various nutrients, the fermentability of the wort, trace elements, lipids and fatty acids, available nitrogen, the pH and the pitch rate as well as the average age of the yeast cells, and how healthy they are, all play a measurable role in how the yeast preforms. There are few Right answers and at best we are making a series of comprises.

Nothing other than O2 will get the optimum amount into solution, shaking, spraying air pumps... just wont get enough O2 into solution (better than none) - but as I said its a compromise we all have to do the best we can with what we have. O2 is important, personally I would put good temperature control before it, good hygiene a long way in front of that...

You just have to love brewing don't you
Mark

 

[Moad]

Damn this thread. Brewman gets my cash again

 

[Camo6]

Yeah. I noticed that they are not in vic, will be hard to get a refill

Gasweld in Dandenong sell and exchange bottles. I recently upgraded my argon bottle from C to E as the tig would chew through the smaller bottle. For oxygenating wort, a C would still last you a long time I'd imagine. Gasweld will also let you upgrade from a smaller bottle to a larger one. You just need to pay the difference between bottle costs, plus a refill cost, and supply the original purchase receipt.

 

[Coldspace]

Totally agree....

First sanitary,
Then temps control, ingredients,
Time ie, proper ferment and conditioning times
Then little icings on the cake.... O2, etc

Love this forum.

 

[2much2spend]

Would this mean that a larger pitch would do the same?

I get that there can be overpitching issues, so I guess the thing is how much does the growth phase contribute to flavour (or not contribute to flavour), as opposed to the alchohol production phase (based on my (hopefully correct) understanding that yeast first grows, then produces alc)?

This line of thinking may result in requiring a starter equal to the volume of yeast the batch size will produce (so cannot be correct)?

Incidentally, I have two overflowing fermentors in my fridge. Has become incereasingly common. I put it down to maybe process improvements and using nutrient.

Edit: Or that my shaking of the cube is improving.......

My understanding is that over pitching would not be a problem for a homebrewer because you would have to pitch up to 3x more than the optimum just to start seeing the negative effect's.

 

[2much2spend]

Also that using an air pump or shaking will only get a mad of 8ppm of o2.

 

[2much2spend]

I Kent to say Max

 

[2much2spend]

Ment. F#%$n auto correct