Fermzilla

[Grok]

Has anyone noticed this happening in their FZ.
The plastic has lost its shiny smooth surface in most places except near what look like the injection points (x4). It looks and feels like beer stone coating being quite rough, you can scrape some of it off, but it doesn't get back to smooth & shiny. Upon close inspection, the surface is badly pitted. Since these photos were taken, I have tried to smooth it off with fine grit wet&dry, it reduce it a bit, but not much, and also tried to buff with a buffing mop wheel for plastic polishing, and once again, a little better, but it's not the answer. I still have a rough non smooth non shiny surface, and not to keen about the harbouring bacteria potential.
Is this a plastic quality problem?

 

[Ferment8]

Has anyone noticed this happening in their FZ.
The plastic has lost its shiny smooth surface in most places except near what look like the injection points (x4). It looks and feels like beer stone coating being quite rough, you can scrape some of it off, but it doesn't get back to smooth & shiny. Upon close inspection, the surface is badly pitted. Since these photos were taken, I have tried to smooth it off with fine grit wet&dry, it reduce it a bit, but not much, and also tried to buff with a buffing mop wheel for plastic polishing, and once again, a little better, but it's not the answer. I still have a rough non smooth shiny surface and not to keen about the harbouring bacteria potential.
Is this a plastic quality problem?
View attachment 118330View attachment 118331

What are you using to clean with? Mine has had maybe a dozen brews through it and still nice and shiny.

 

[Grok]

I use Tricleanium (TSP) with a pinch of detergent mixed up in hot water. Sometimes use a bit of straight or diluted phosphoric acid for a tough spot, but TSP generally gets all my stainless clean no problem.
You can see on the photos the black areas are the nice and shiny plastic that I expected to whole surface to remain. This is all over my valve as well and might explain why getting my collection bottle off is such a PITA, so hard to move, just about break the plastic every time and swear and curse the stupid thing. Starting to go off this cheap plastic stuff, but I remain hopeful.......for now!

 

[Ferment8]

yeah not sure. I only put stellarclean through it and a bit of stellarsan. Not too strong. Wondering if the TSP or acid might not play well with plastics

 

[Grok]

yeah not sure. I only put stellarclean through it and a bit of stellarsan. Not too strong. Wondering if the TSP or acid might not play well with plastics

I doubt it, check the MSDS on these products:
Stellerclean: Silicates, Oxidizing agents, Phosphates, and Surfactants and Sodium Metasilicate


Stellersan:
Kegland:

• Phosphoric acid 50%
• Dodecylbenzensulfonic acid 15%
• Inert/Proprietary Ingredients- 35% (probably water!!!)

Another MSDS:

• Phosphoric Acid(96%) CAS 7664‐38‐2 40‐60% (V/%)
• Dedecylbenzene Sulfonic Acid CAS 27176‐87‐0 10‐30% (V/%)
• IMS (96%) CAS 64‐17‐5 5‐20% (V/%)
• Water CAS 7732‐18‐5 Bal to 100% (V/%)

So not sure which one is accurate, but obviously plenty of Phosphoric acid around these products.

Trisodium phosphate is produced by neutralization of phosphoric acid using sodium carbonate, which produces disodium phosphate, and then sodium carbonate.
At about pH of 12, is definitely a "base" and generally referred to as Alkaline Salts, so I don't think this should worry plastic. And in any case, why are there small patches of totally unaffected plastic surface!

 

[Grok]

What are you using to clean with? Mine has had maybe a dozen brews through it and still nice and shiny.

Any chance of pics so I can compare? I have done about 8 brews in mine.

 

[Ferment8]

Give me an hour or two

 

[frosty3]

I had one of those red bottle cleaners do a similar thing. It was caused by the phosphoric acid. So am wondering if that’s what’s caused it?

 

[Grok]

I had one of those red bottle cleaners do a similar thing. It was caused by the phosphoric acid. So am wondering if that’s what’s caused it?

Beer has Phosphoric acid in it naturally, coke drink is loaded with it, if the plastic is that sensitive, it ought to be labelled as such.

 

[Ferment8]

Here you go

 

[Grok]

I see your surfaces are a little blemished as well, how does it feel when you touch it?

 

[Ferment8]

Feels completely smooth. Probably just a bit of film from washing still on it.

 

[RRising]

I use Tricleanium (TSP) with a pinch of detergent mixed up in hot water. Sometimes use a bit of straight or diluted phosphoric acid for a tough spot, but TSP generally gets all my stainless clean no problem.
You can see on the photos the black areas are the nice and shiny plastic that I expected to whole surface to remain. This is all over my valve as well and might explain why getting my collection bottle off is such a PITA, so hard to move, just about break the plastic every time and swear and curse the stupid thing. Starting to go off this cheap plastic stuff, but I remain hopeful.......for now!

Are you using a normal cloth or a scourer sponge to clean it? maybe the combo of trisodium phosphate and detergent is causing to plastic to soften and cleaning is roughing up the surface.

 

[Ferment8]

I only use the bucket blaster now. It's only ever had a micro fiber cloth in it

 

[Grok]

I don't use scourers on plastic, either a sponge or cotton cloth, or brush bristles. I actually bought a new dunny brush for this purpose because of the long handle....and of course it is dual purpose....hmmm extra flavour
But in any case, the tank plastic (PET) is fine, no issues, smooth as, the top fittings are also fine, but then they don't sit in the beer.
I'm thinking this may be plastic ingredients quality issue, maybe not enough R & D? It all points to attention to detail and quality in my book, ok a new product might have some issue, but FFS own up to them and issue a recall to fix problems.

 

[TheBeerBaron]

I don't use scourers on plastic, either a sponge or cotton cloth, or brush bristles. I actually bought a new dunny brush for this purpose because of the long handle....and of course it is dual purpose....hmmm extra flavour
But in any case, the tank plastic (PET) is fine, no issues, smooth as, the top fittings are also fine, but then they don't sit in the beer.
I'm thinking this may be plastic ingredients quality issue, maybe not enough R & D? It all points to attention to detail and quality in my book, ok a new product might have some issue, but FFS own up to them and issue a recall to fix problems.

I recently soaked my FZ with Country Brewer's 'Keg Cleaner' aka Sodium Metasilicate. It was full to the brim with a mix that I eyeballed as I poured in the powder. I forgot about it and came back about a week later and it had leaked from the lower seals

by the look of the lower cone shaped gasket the chemical had eaten away at it.. to the point of failure

I am thinking I will stick to KegLand PBW in the future and also limit contact time of the cleaner to maybe half and hour before I rinse it thoroughly

 

[RRising]

I don't use scourers on plastic, either a sponge or cotton cloth, or brush bristles. I actually bought a new dunny brush for this purpose because of the long handle....and of course it is dual purpose....hmmm extra flavour
But in any case, the tank plastic (PET) is fine, no issues, smooth as, the top fittings are also fine, but then they don't sit in the beer.
I'm thinking this may be plastic ingredients quality issue, maybe not enough R & D? It all points to attention to detail and quality in my book, ok a new product might have some issue, but FFS own up to them and issue a recall to fix problems.

You aren't using a scourer pad but are using a toilet brush? this with a harsh(ish) chemical might be the reason why the plastic in your FZ has gone the way it has.

Have you contacted KL about this potential fault? the reason there isn't a "recall" is because they don't know about the issue. They do have in their instructions what chemicals you can and can't use

 

[Grok]

you seriously think I'd use a used dunny brush....lol
This issue isn't about scratches in the plastic, it's about reaction with the plastic i am suggesting!

 

[fdsaasdf]

What are the lids made of? PP?

Does any of that residue lift when soaking with warm (<60C) water?

 

[Grok]

I presume the lid is made of the same material, but I don't know, I didn't make it!
I have soaked the bottom flange and valve in warm water, about 50C, and also in the same with some tsp and detergent in it and it doesn't soak off, like things do with stainless.
I'm not here to have a go at KL, I want to know if other people have similar issues with their gear, and if they have, have they found a solution, and if it's turns out to be a common issue, then yes I will get into the manufacturer. If it's just me, then I need to find out why it's happening.