Fermzilla

[Prost]

As you can see the only pressure in the fermenter is through the restriction of the post, though it is a great way to not damage the gauge and spunding valve. Don't connect it.

I'm sorry, but I don't seem to understand your answer. What wouldn't you connect? I have not actually built this yet, this is a picture of a setup I took from a Facebook group.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

Cheers! From what I've read I will absolutely avoid more than 15psi, that's for sure. This thing has its issues but I just love the general idea of it, so I want to try to make it as safe as possible. Should not be the users' job, but well...
For example avoiding a volcano that clogs the spunding valve with this thing here: View attachment 119645

Great and simple solution! More like this!

Nice work. That is the cleanest fermenting fridge I have ever seen.

 

[Prost]

Likewise...

 

[Nullnvoid]

Nice work. That is the cleanest fermenting fridge I have ever seen.

Yeah I'm suspicious..... hahahaha

 

[MHB]

Nice work. That is the cleanest fermenting fridge I have ever seen.

Probably the newest, at a stab I'd say that's its first run.
Mark

 

[Grmblz]

What happens when hops/trub block the gas disconnect and PRV?
Anyone that dry hops in the keg has had blocked poppets, you soon learn to use a sock, and if a disconnect can get blocked so too can the PRV.
I used to use the airlock lid for initial ferment, and have had the airlock block and get blown out, so now have a 13mm blow off tube, no problems so far, the pressure lid gets fitted after krausen collapses, FZ v1.0 still going strong, although I never use more than 12psi/83kpa.

 

[Prost]

Hey guys. Sorry we have not been keeping an eye on this thread so we have not replied to much here. We have made and continue to make changes on many of our products including the FermZilla. Often once changes have been implemented we publish documents like this that specify the design change:

http://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/FermZilla Design Revision - Google Docs Export.pdf

Or some people with the FermZilla said that they had an issue with the carbonation caps requiring too much force to seal so we made changes and released this document:
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/KL10788 - Carbonation Cap Improvements April 2020.pdf

We also continue to make other accessories and other improvements. If we do sell a product and for any reason we find that product to be faulty it would also be replaced.

We make a lot of new products every year and certainly if we get feedback that customers want something changed we generally act on this fairly quickly. If you do have any particularly difficult issue that you have not been able to solve I would make sure to send us an email and include any photos or video of the issue.

Took me a while to get to read this... And great to hear that what I thought about is being worked on! Pressure release valve caps for the container. I guess they will be great for purging gas. Any idea how they will react when used for releasing pressure when the container is full of trub/yeast? I'd want to put a big towel around it...

 

[Prost]

What happens when hops/trub block the gas disconnect and PRV?
Anyone that dry hops in the keg has had blocked poppets, you soon learn to use a sock, and if a disconnect can get blocked so too can the PRV.
I used to use the airlock lid for initial ferment, and have had the airlock block and get blown out, so now have a 13mm blow off tube, no problems so far, the pressure lid gets fitted after krausen collapses, FZ v1.0 still going strong, although I never use more than 12psi/83kpa.

I guess waiting with pressure for after Kräusen is the safest route. I'd like some more safetyfeatures nevertheless.

 

[moovet]

Hey guys. Sorry we have not been keeping an eye on this thread so we have not replied to much here. We have made and continue to make changes on many of our products including the FermZilla. Often once changes have been implemented we publish documents like this that specify the design change:

http://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/FermZilla Design Revision - Google Docs Export.pdf

Or some people with the FermZilla said that they had an issue with the carbonation caps requiring too much force to seal so we made changes and released this document:
https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/KL10788 - Carbonation Cap Improvements April 2020.pdf

We also continue to make other accessories and other improvements. If we do sell a product and for any reason we find that product to be faulty it would also be replaced.

We make a lot of new products every year and certainly if we get feedback that customers want something changed we generally act on this fairly quickly. If you do have any particularly difficult issue that you have not been able to solve I would make sure to send us an email and include any photos or video of the issue.

I have one of the original Fermzillas that does have stress cracks in the neck. Should I contact the NZ supplier for this or arrange someone to hydrotest it?

 

[kadmium]

I have one of the original Fermzillas that does have stress cracks in the neck. Should I contact the NZ supplier for this or arrange someone to hydrotest it?

I would be getting it replaced.

 

[crackajack]

I would love to know how many of these things are in the tip.

 

[wide eyed and legless]

I have one of the original Fermzillas that does have stress cracks in the neck. Should I contact the NZ supplier for this or arrange someone to hydrotest it?

They are replacing them in Germany if they have stress fractures, Shikitar had a couple, both with stress fractures, I don't know if he had any joy replacing them. Come to think of it he hasn't been on here for a while. If they pressure tested them as they should be doing there wouldn't be all this fuss. I see the Yanks are grumbling now and posting pic's.

 

[RRising]

Does anyone here know the dimensions of the 30L allrounder or know of any mini fridges that can fit one?

I am looking to get a mini or bar fridge as i have no room for another full sized fridge and my kegerator is normally full.

I wouldn't mind KL's upcoming RAPT fridge but it seems to be in perpetual development and possibly feature creep and there is no way it'll keep to its $500 price tag.

 

[Malted Mick]

The dimension from the website are: https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/KL15233 - All Rounder_30L.pdf
I went down the same path trying to find a minifridge to fit a allrounder with no luck. Ended up finding a free 310lt Samsung on the kerb with plenty of room for the allrounder plus the advantage of a freezer for my hop stock. Did the usual, fitted a STC-1000 and fan. I understand space is your issue but maybe consider another location for a normal full size free/cheap fridge. I have two allrounders and during the cooler time of year I pull one allrounder out to ambient for a DA rest and then put the other one into the fridge. The allrounders are great and compact but when it comes time to replace them I may consider the other types which have a conical bottom. It may be an advantage as when I transfer to a keg you have to tip the allrounder to avoid picking up to much trub.

 

[Prost]

I thinking about doing some smaller batches in my 27l Fermzilla (when in finally arrives...). Usually I will do 20-25 liters but for trying out recipes I would like to try about 5 liters every now and then. Does anybody have experience with volumes that small in the Fermzilla? I have no idea how that much headspace would affect fermentation. Any ideas what I should keep in mind? Of course I will keep the container closed.

 

[TC53]

A California home brewer here, with my first batch going in my second FermZilla (27L). I brew mostly NEIPAs and like to add my dry hops just as active fermentation begins to slow. Up to that point, I use a blowoff hose, but after adding the dry hops (purged with CO2, through the collection jar), I swap out the blowoff hose for a gas connector, then add a bit of pressure (2 psi), mainly to protect against oxygen exposure. After the dry hops have been in the beer for 3-4 days, I like to remove whatever trub and hop residue I can. To do this, I remove the gas line, slowly release pressure through the PRV, then close the butterfly valve and remove and empty the jar. Sometimes I do this a second time. After that, I cold crash for a couple of days before transferring to a keg.

Today, four days after dry hopping my current batch, a week after brewing, the beer seemed pretty settled, with the collection jar full of hop residue and trub, along with more of the same in the fermenter just above the valve. When I opened the PRV to release the pressure before removing the jar, the beer started bubbling and foaming. I stopped and waited an hour or so for things to settle again. When I tried again later, again the beer started bubbling and foaming as I released pressure. I'm only on my fifth or sixth batch using the FermZilla, but I don't recall getting this agitation and foaming in the past when I released what I thought was only a minimal amount of pressure. I used more dry hops this time around, but only by about an ounce (10 this time; 9 in my last batch)

Any advice? Is the beer absorbing CO2 and getting a bit carbonated when I have it under only about 2 psi (and still at 68-70 degrees F? Should I not be applying any pressure (if I am not already fermenting under pressure). What's causing this foaming as I release pressure? Thanks for any help you can offer.

 

[WEF]

A California home brewer here, with my first batch going in my second FermZilla (27L). I brew mostly NEIPAs and like to add my dry hops just as active fermentation begins to slow. Up to that point, I use a blowoff hose, but after adding the dry hops (purged with CO2, through the collection jar), I swap out the blowoff hose for a gas connector, then add a bit of pressure (2 psi), mainly to protect against oxygen exposure. After the dry hops have been in the beer for 3-4 days, I like to remove whatever trub and hop residue I can. To do this, I remove the gas line, slowly release pressure through the PRV, then close the butterfly valve and remove and empty the jar. Sometimes I do this a second time. After that, I cold crash for a couple of days before transferring to a keg.

Today, four days after dry hopping my current batch, a week after brewing, the beer seemed pretty settled, with the collection jar full of hop residue and trub, along with more of the same in the fermenter just above the valve. When I opened the PRV to release the pressure before removing the jar, the beer started bubbling and foaming. I stopped and waited an hour or so for things to settle again. When I tried again later, again the beer started bubbling and foaming as I released pressure. I'm only on my fifth or sixth batch using the FermZilla, but I don't recall getting this agitation and foaming in the past when I released what I thought was only a minimal amount of pressure. I used more dry hops this time around, but only by about an ounce (10 this time; 9 in my last batch)

Any advice? Is the beer absorbing CO2 and getting a bit carbonated when I have it under only about 2 psi (and still at 68-70 degrees F? Should I not be applying any pressure (if I am not already fermenting under pressure). What's causing this foaming as I release pressure? Thanks for any help you can offer.

The only way you're really going to know accurately how much pressure is present is by attaching a blowtie spunding valve & pressure guage such as the following; Integrated Gauge BlowTie Spunding Valve Kit (0-15psi) to the Input/Gas input connector of the FermZilla.

With this setup you can accurately regulate the pressure in the FermZilla and see how much pressure is present,

You can still hook up your CO2 line to the 'output float tube line' of the FermZilla which may desirable to bring up to a desired pressure, obviously you'll need to adjust the spunding valve and CO2 tank to match one another otherwise you may have excess/wasted CO2 spill coming from the from CO2 tank. Adjusting it this way ensures a truly regulated and known pressure in the Fermenter (such as pressure fermenting) but also allows excess CO2 pressure created by the fermentation to be expelled via the spunding valve through a sterile blowoff hose/bubbler...

 

[duncbrewer]

TC53 I use a fermentasaurus gen 1, Gen 2 and a Gen 3.

The 1 and 2 have butterfly valves, I just close those and then take the collection bottle off, ____ carefully / slowly with a collection bowl underneath it and a tea towel around the neck ____ I do this under pressure even 25 psi sometimes some drips but normally not from the ferment vessel.
Why the palaver, because if you just close the valve and take the collection vessel off its' under a lot of pressure, jets off, mess +++ and a yeast shampoo.
I don't think you need to stir up your beer and equalise the pressure.

Extra note I attach a connector to the liquid out post with a party tap ( all sanitised ) before starting this.
ONce collection vessel off and emptied and washed under the tap and sprayed with starsan, spray the valve threads etc of the fermentasaurus and then fill the collection vessel with beer / foam to the brim ( usually a lot of foam and a little beer ) then final spray of the butterfly valve and replace the collection vessel.
Reopen the butterfly and volcano of activity and all stirred up but basically no oxygen entry and then the other trub, yeast etc starts to drop in.

You must have a spunding valve as WEF mentions and the one shown is best value and works well.

It is perfectly possible to finish the ferment under enough pressure ( ferment generated ) that the beer is fully carbed by the time cold crashing finished and ready for transfer. Watch out for Hop creep with all of those hops ( or drink fast).

 

[TC53]

Thanks, WEF and duncbrewer. I appreciate the suggestions. Are both of you thinking that the foaming/bubbling I was experiencing was due to the pressure being higher than the 2 psi my regulator indicated, extra pressure from CO2 still being generated by continued fermentation?

I do have a Blow Tie, and I do understand that adding that would ensure an accurate reading of pressure in the tank. I'll try that with my next batch.

Duncbrewer, are you saying you don't release pressure from the tank before closing the valve and removing the collection jar? I thought that would leave the collection jar still pressurized, making it very difficult to unscrew and spraying trub/hop residue everywhere.

Eventually yesterday, I was able to release the pressure from the tank, very slowly, without the foaming I had earlier. I emptied the collection jar, cleaned and sanitized it, then reattached it, purged with CO2, then reopened the valve. Duncbrewer, I like your suggestion of filling the empty, sanitized jar with beer/foam from the fermenter before reattaching. Will try that next time.

Following a cold crash, I plan on doing a closed transfer to a keg for the first time, using the method Gash posted on the YouTube Home-brew Network. A question: If the beer has been under a little pressure during the cold crash, will it have started to carbonate by then, and if so, am I going to run into foaming issues in the closed transfer? Any suggestions to make that process go smoothly? Thanks again.

 

[WEF]

Thanks, WEF and duncbrewer. I appreciate the suggestions. Are both of you thinking that the foaming/bubbling I was experiencing was due to the pressure being higher than the 2 psi my regulator indicated, extra pressure from CO2 still being generated by continued fermentation?

I do have a Blow Tie, and I do understand that adding that would ensure an accurate reading of pressure in the tank. I'll try that with my next batch.

Duncbrewer, are you saying you don't release pressure from the tank before closing the valve and removing the collection jar? I thought that would leave the collection jar still pressurized, making it very difficult to unscrew and spraying trub/hop residue everywhere.

Eventually yesterday, I was able to release the pressure from the tank, very slowly, without the foaming I had earlier. I emptied the collection jar, cleaned and sanitized it, then reattached it, purged with CO2, then reopened the valve. Duncbrewer, I like your suggestion of filling the empty, sanitized jar with beer/foam from the fermenter before reattaching. Will try that next time.

Following a cold crash, I plan on doing a closed transfer to a keg for the first time, using the method Gash posted on the YouTube Home-brew Network. A question: If the beer has been under a little pressure during the cold crash, will it have started to carbonate by then, and if so, am I going to run into foaming issues in the closed transfer? Any suggestions to make that process go smoothly? Thanks again.

2 PSI may be enough to pressurise the final brew and cause the foaming otherwise yeah you could just have more than 2psi in the tank also, without the blow-tie setup it is hard to know...

The following are my experiences with pressure fermentation and closed transfer;

Most of my brews are kegged from the fermenter at the 9 psi mark (constant 9psi from fermentation to cold crash other than hop addition) and the closest i came to a foam over was when i was dry hopping following a Raspberry & Passion fruit adjunct addition.

I gave up on the FermZilla (too many issues for little gain) and now use the All-Rounder, i've recently upgraded to the 50L Braumeister and 60L All-Rounder but am yet to run a batch through them. I simply dump my dry hop/adjunct additions via the top lid now which is what i was doing in the end with the Fermzilla anyway. I then purge heavily with CO2 afterwards and have had no noticeable decline in flavour since using this method. This "old school" method is simpler and with the invention of these pressurised tanks purging oxygen from the tank using CO2 is achievable and simple.

I have not found any decline in flavour, hop burn etc by leaving the finished beer sitting on the trub, the beer is kegged by about day 12 anyway or much earlier if using Kveik...

Sometimes i find things can get too technical for no real benefit but a whole lot of risk and that's where i found myself with the FermZilla so cutting out the FermZilla was actually a step forward for me. I tend now to focus on the main things like minimising oxygen exposure, using RO water, creating my own water profiles (using salts) to suit my palate and sanitise everything.

Also, i use Gash's method for closed transfer to the keg with the beer at around 9 psi (fully carb'd) with no issues at all, just ensure the following is carried out;

1. Wash & sanitise your keg using Starsan or equivalent.
2. Pressurise the keg and purge any oxygen from the tank including sanitiser via the liquid out post via party tap etc.
3. Transfer beer from FermZilla to keg via the kegs liquid out post, this will ensure it fills the keg from the bottom up avoiding splashing and CO2 release.
4. You'll need to control the transfer flow by hooking up the Blow Tie to the gas in post of the keg, i find i need to ramp up the pressure significantly (30 psi) towards the end to push out the last few litres from the bottom of the FermZilla.

 

[TC53]

Thanks, WEF! I really appreciate the tips and clear advice and instructions.

I hear what you're saying about the All Rounder as well. My current FermZilla is my second, replaced for free by our local vendor (MoreBeer) after my first one failed, when the bottom valve/spigot assembly loosened but would not come off or apart or tighten back up. Perhaps a good example of what you say about some innovations becoming so technical that the risks outweigh whatever benefit they offer. If (when?) this one fails, I am definitely headed toward the All Rounder (maybe even two, at the low price point).

A question about that. I've read some All Rounder reviews that mention some difficulties with the floating dip tube getting to the last gallon or less of beer unless you tip the All Rounder a bit. Have you had any such difficulties?

Thanks again for all of your help!

 

[duncbrewer]

Duncbrewer, are you saying you don't release pressure from the tank before closing the valve and removing the collection jar?

That's right I don't release the pressure.
Place a container below the collection bottle and undo the bottle a little bit, liquid, gas foam etc starts to come out. Be patient and then crack it open some more. Let the pressure equalise but it takes a few minutes and is quite messy. Then with the tea towel around the neck of the collection bottle undo the last bit. It sometimes sort of blows off with the residual pressure and the tea towel catches the spray that results.
Then clean out collection bottle and refill with beer and reattach. Spray starsan around a lot and use it to wash clean the vessel and bottle threads before reattaching, then I crack open the butterfly and it all boils up as it gets stirred. You might want to play with this technique with the remnants after your transfer because the vessel and collection bottle will be pressurised. I do close the butterfly valve when transferring because if the pressure does change yeast in the collection bottle will rise.
You should not get foaming issues with the transfer provided the keg has 1-2 psi less pressure than the ferment vessel.
I would try and get it carbed whilst it's cold crashing use a chart and get the CO2 in there. You then get a chance to test the product.
I use the method on short circuit brewers


I aim to get the beer carbed by the end of fermentation and onwards thru cold crash using the fermentation CO2. No need to force carb at all.
Using this calculator
https://drhansbrewery.com/beercarbonationcalculator/
attached example to show that the pressure is quite high at the end of ferment.



But that pressure drops as you cold crash as the CO2 in the headspace goes into the beer ( but keeps the same carbonation ). So you don't carb to 27 psi at 2 celsius, you will find that the pressure drops but the vols will stay the same.

I Just use CO2 to serve and maintain carbonation in my keg fridge.

Hope this helps.

Do make sure all of those hops have dropped before the transer otherwise you might block the poppet or dip tube.

Little filter that fits on the dip tube is worth getting and using for the big hoppy beers as an added safeguard.

 

[WEF]

Thanks, WEF! I really appreciate the tips and clear advice and instructions.

A question about that. I've read some All Rounder reviews that mention some difficulties with the floating dip tube getting to the last gallon or less of beer unless you tip the All Rounder a bit. Have you had any such difficulties?

Thanks again for all of your help!

No problems, I've learn't a lot from Gash's videos and can't fault his methods, they make sense and good beer.

Yeah i hate seeing the wastage from these floating dip tubes, you can't even tip it up to your mouth and skull unless you want to eat some trub that is!

I would say that you do lose a little more final brew with the All Rounder but not much more than the FermZilla.

The Snub Nose from Keg King has more of a conical bottom so i'd imagine it would be better at collecting the final liquid without much trub, i also notice they attach their floating dip tube to the temp probe rod which may be beneficial also. I chose not to run with the Snub Nose due to the narrower opening at the top but i don't think that is a huge deal breaker though.

 

[duncbrewer]

I found that the dip tube end could float up and fit in the space of the ring on the float. This meant that it needed jiggling to make it slip out of there, otherwise gas came down. Didn't have that problem with the free roaming dip tube. Some suggest weighting the tube a bit with a nut to stop this. Perhaps I had the tube to long?

 

[Ballaratguy]

I love the snub with the floating dip tube (weighted)
I only get about 1-2 Lt of trunk/hop matter in the bottom (depending on the amount of hops)
The narrow opening on the top was purposefully done to stop hands going in and scratching the inside. Just clean with a bucket blaster and KK’s abc cleaner and it’s clean in about 10 mins

 

[Mysticbrewer]

I couldn't find an answer to this, but does anyone have a recommendation for the length of beer tube to use when serving from an all-rounder and using a pluto gun? I was thinking the standard 1.5-2m but was not sure if I could get away with less.

 

[Sidney Harbour-Bridge]

If you had watched the first series of Startrek you would know "Ya canna change the laws of physics cap'n" so you will still need 1.5 to 2m

 

[Vic]

I couldn't find an answer to this, but does anyone have a recommendation for the length of beer tube to use when serving from an all-rounder and using a pluto gun? I was thinking the standard 1.5-2m but was not sure if I could get away with less.

You can use a much shorter tube and get a good pour. Get a length of tube shorter than required. Connect Pluto and disconnect. Place the tube in boiling water for a few seconds. Do not submerge the Pluto or disconnect. Remove from water and quickly stretch the tube and run cold water over the tube to set it. This wil constrict the tube providing more resistance and result in a good pour. Works great.

 

[KegLand-com-au]

You can use a much shorter tube and get a good pour. Get a length of tube shorter than required. Connect Pluto and disconnect. Place the tube in boiling water for a few seconds. Do not submerge the Pluto or disconnect. Remove from water and quickly stretch the tube and run cold water over the tube to set it. This wil constrict the tube providing more resistance and result in a good pour. Works great.

If you use the 4mm ID beer line then you can get away with about 1.5 meters. With that said we have been talking about a new even smaller 3mm ID beer line in the office and do you think you guys want an even smaller 3mm ID beer line available? If we were to make a 3mm ID Evabarrier beer line you would be able to get away with about 0.5meters. Keen to get your thoughts on this one guys.

 

[mynameisrodney]

Isn't that already on your website?

Edit
https://www.kegland.com.au/evabarri...12meter-length-in-bag-beer-line-gas-line.html