Excerpts From A Conversation With A Lbhs Owner

[tcraig20]

Any way point being hbs owners should know more about their clientel and not just cater for distillers.

Unfortunately, HBS have to follow the money - they have to feed themselves and keep the lights on just like the rest of us. They push kits and distilling gear because that is where the money and customer base is. I can understand them not really wanting to help the occassional bloke who comes in wanting to do all grain, because all they do is undermine their customer base. Holding an encyclopedic knowledge of processes and techniques that you dont cater for makes little sense.

Even if they were interested in catering for all grainers, it simply wouldnt pay. There are too few of them, and you actually need to carry quite a lot of stock to make it worthwhile (I'd imagine somewhere in the order of 15+ hop varieties and a dozen or so bulk malts). Even then, the margin probably isnt there to justify the expense and hassle of catering for an insignificant minority. The reason places like Craftbrewer and Beerbelly do so well is because they cater specifically to their niche, and have the advantage of the internet. I doubt that either of them would survive without the market access the internet provides. Its simply not something you can expect from every shop you walk into.

 

[bum]

Trent, I agree with everything you said but I would like to remind you that we're talking about a guy who didn't know you could make beer by adding hops to extract - both of which are products he already sells. I don't doubt for a minute that fully catering to the AG market would make him go under. His stock is not the issue - he (sorta) had everything I went in there for so in that regard he's kicking goals. My issue is that he didn't even know you could brew extract without a kit. Surely if he knew that he'd be able to tell a customer who came back and said that a kit wasn't what he expected how he can tailor things more to his taste without making things all that more complicated than kit brewing. Then the guy walks out with a hop addiction and only one local source. Customer is happy and owner is still making a buck (which is obviously of great importance). I do understand that not every LHBS can or should be G&G or Craftbrewer.

 

[Trent]

I must admit, Bum, that selling hops and un-hopped extract, the bloke really should know what they are for. I would have to assume that he sells the unhopped extract as an alternative to sugar/dextrose, and the hops as a tea bag for flavour or aroma. He really SHOULD know a bit more about the process, but sadly, most dont really care too much, as there arent that many people right into brewing (and thats not just another "there arent many of us" argument, its just that most people's eyes glaze over when you start talking about brewing, and doubtless this bloke would be one of them).
Maybe next time you go in there, tell him that you can brew extract without kits, show him the Morgans website (that is where I got all my first ever extract recipes), maybe he could print them off and use it to sell more Morgans un-hopped extract, and pre-packaged hops. He would probably thank you for it - alternatively he may think you are a beer snob that "thinks" he knows alot :lol:, but if that is his attitude when you are trying to help him, bugger him
I know that my LHBS does up recipes that include a kit, some unhopped extract, and hop tea-bags for flavour/aroma, cause that is what most people want. Extract brewing, with hops and a small boil is too much hassle for the majority. Maybe, though, take him in some of your extract wit, and show him what can be done with just extract and hops, you may help him understand alot about brewing over a single glass of beer.
Anyway, good onya for not outing the guy, he is obviously living in the dark ages :lol:
Trent

 

[mash head]

I guess with hind sight I probably expected too much from said shop but as a newby who had only read a book on brewing I didnt expect to walk in to a shop and have more idea of the process than the retailer and walked out some what deflated. If I had some one with all the answers then and there I probably would have spent shit loads to set up and would have been mashing a year earlier. Can probably put it down to poor reasearch on my part. As it was on that first mission to the hbs I still spent a couple of hundred on kits and bits.
Unfortunatly for me the lhbs is a couple of hundred dollar ferry ride and a few hours driving admitadly I didnt just go to town to visit hbs but still got home scratching my head.
Am far more confident with things now thanks to this web site.
Cheers Greg

 

[HoppingMad]

Hoppingmad might have a point here.

To start brewing I bought two coopers setups.
Decided to to do one as an ale and the other as a lager. Went to the abovementioned store to buy some S-23. Friendly service, the guy gave me a bottle of his own brew to taste. I took it home. When I tasted it I almost gave up homebrewing..it was "WTF is this?"
Having bought the coopers stuff and S-23 I had to continue ...with good results. Went back a couple of times, service OK...not sure about the advice...and prices...

To be honest haven't been back to Brewcraft Heidelberg for years so I need to be careful paying out on the guys - but that said your post confirms that little has been done to improve things there.

Agree that these people need to google the names of their stores occasionally and see what people are saying about them and other stores here and on other forums. I'm sure retailers hate reading threads like these but there are some real truths here about how to draw in more customers.

Haysie, haven't asked Pete about specialty grains much but know brewers who phone him two days ahead and he has it ready for them when they get there, so would have thought he does it - not as immediate as G&G so get your point.

Was reading this and my Craftbrewer sachel with yeasts and fresh galaxy rocked up in a post sachel :beerbang:
+1 for Ross and Craftbrewer!

Hopper.

 

[Leigh]

Unfortunately, HBS have to follow the money - they have to feed themselves and keep the lights on just like the rest of us. They push kits and distilling gear because that is where the money and customer base is. I can understand them not really wanting to help the occassional bloke who comes in wanting to do all grain, because all they do is undermine their customer base. Holding an encyclopedic knowledge of processes and techniques that you dont cater for makes little sense.

Aye, their be some logic in your post...but might I add, that said LHBS do not get custom from people introduced to brewing by I, I says "keep yeself clear of little man in Narre 5km away 'cause he be not helpful...more, better help is at other HBS 40km away"

Fair enough that there may not be money in everybody supplying AG, and fair enough that they don't necessarily have to know anything about it, but their is no need to bag what you don't understand and drive away not just that customer but also all those that speak to them.

The best advertising is the unsolicited kind, in the same way as the worst is also the unsolicited kind.

 

[HoppingMad]

Fair enough that there may not be money in everybody supplying AG, and fair enough that they don't necessarily have to know anything about it, but their is no need to bag what you don't understand and drive away not just that customer but also all those that speak to them.

I think most retailers are looking for the simplicity. A kit is easy to move, restock, has a decent margin and requires very little face time technically. When you get into extract, partials and AG the variables increase and it can become a headache for a sales person with everyone wanting to trouble-shoot their brews and get opinions across the counter or on the phone.

Kits are easier for inexperienced customer service people to sell also. Good advice on extract, partials and allgrain takes years of expertise. That's why the better brew stores - with John from Grain and Grape, Pete from Brewers Den, and Dave from Greensborough all have well seasoned campaigners selling the stuff.

Hopper.

 

[PostModern]

Kits are easier for inexperienced customer service people to sell also. Good advice on extract, partials and allgrain takes years of expertise. That's why the better brew stores - with John from Grain and Grape, Pete from Brewers Den, and Dave from Greensborough all have well seasoned campaigners selling the stuff.

Hopper.

This is a good point. You need to find the brew shop that is right for you, not necessarily try to convert an uninterested proprietor just because he's local.

 

[flattop]

I remember calling a shop in Oakleigh for a fairly standard grain bill and they didn't even recognize the name of most of the grains... Ale malt for example....
Ordered the same gear from Boronia and it was crushed and ready the next day

 

[Screwtop]

Would I invest good money in a business that relies on 90% of it's income from an illegal activity, not on your nellie. Plus if it is ever legalised the full range of essences etc would then be available from the supermarkets, shaky future.

Screwy

 

[manticle]

By all means, go somewhere that does sell grains and hops, and has better info for you, but realistically, it doesnt make it a shitty HBS. Would you stop going to the local take away for your fish and chips because the owner doesnt know how to make French cuisine? Only if you wanted French cuisine, I would think.

That's a really bad analogy. If I went to a fish and chip shop looking for bouillabaisse I would be an idiot who went to the wrong shop - like going to the milk bar to buy a mop or a car yard to buy a push bike.

However going to a home brewing shop looking for homebrewing supplies and possibly good advice on homebrewing is not a big stretch. Sure AG people might be in the minority and sure the business might run great selling tins. However sneering at people who'd like to improve, suggesting it's not worth the bother and giving blatantly crap advice is something ANY store owner would do well to avoid. It's not about who does what or who sells the most, it's about taking pride in what you do. A good, knowledgeable brew shop owner can sell tins of goo to those who want it (as long as THEY don't look down their pointy noses at happy k'kers) AND advise those wanting to improve their brews. It's the difference between giving a toss for every customer who comes in or just getting by day to day.

Nothing wrong with a bit of pride.

 

[flattop]

Look i understand that K&K probably gives a bigger turnover, i'm not sure if it gives a better margin but a decent grain bill would usually come in at a higher price than a medium range kit... I try to keep my costs down, harvesting yeast etc but i churn yeasts every few brews as i don't want infection or to breed a poor strain.

5K of mixed grains, 50gms hops and a packet of yeast = approx $30, can of goop and dex, $20. I don't know about margins but obviously the grain has to be crushed involving labour costs.

 

[manticle]

I agree you have to consider turnover of stock as well as margins.

However if that's the case, don't sell it and tell your customers why you don't sell it. Don't look at them like the'yre an alien because they have the idea of adding their own hops. Don't sell packs of grain if you don't know what it is or what it does.

Better yet - if you don't know then find out.

Bad coffee is sold all over the country and most people are probably happy with it. Doesn't mean I have to sympathise with the cafe owner running a business that I have no interest in frequenting, just because his/her life is hard or most people are satisfied with crap. I have holes in my shoes but I still want good coffee and good advice on grain brewing.

Stop me when I no longer make sense.

 

[Pollux]

Ahhhh, coffee analogies....


Now I understand. I am a coffee snob more so than I am a beer snob.

 

[bum]

I hate coffee. Someone do me an arthouse cinema analogy.

 

[manticle]

Most people will happily watch Owen Wilson make an arse of himself but someone into film promotion should still know who David Lynch and Lars Von Trier are.

 

[flattop]

Yes David Lynch..... psychosexual issues...
Much like your LHBS advice it can make beer but gives off flavors if sampled too young...
Oops wrong director that was woody

Seriously guys if you don't find what you need shop around...

I still reckon ppl like Ross that get involved in the industry they work in are the buzz, he could just sell cans of goop but instead he gets on here and gives advice for nicks...
Maybe he gets orders from the sponsors link but he could just write a cheque for that...

*Disclaimer, never met the bloke, don't own the company and only bought from him once, but he offered me free advice and his phone number for nothing....

 

[mash head]

i like the post about pride of work but I think your on a tangent now and made the point that needed to be made. Any one can palm off products without a care but the retailer who cares and is interested in what their clientel are into is ultimately the one who will end up with the business. Unless the clientel have no aspiration of grandure. My 2c worth Greg

 

[bum]

Unless the clientel have no aspiration of grandure.

I just wanna make some beer, mate.

 

[mash head]

I only ment aspire to grater things than a can.