EOI for IBU testing.

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Lyrebird_Cycles

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I'm in the process of setting up a winery laboratory for a client, we'll be including a spectro. The cost of upgrading the spectro to allow me to do some beer analyses would be covered if I could get you mob interested in doing about 100 tests for IBU at $35 each.

FWIW I used to be the state QA/QC manager for a very large brewery (the blue one) so I actually know what I'm doing
 
Lyrebird_Cycles said:
FWIW I used to be the state QA/QC manager for a very large brewery (the blue one) so I actually know what I'm doing
Crap and all this time I thought you were just wingin' it and gettin' lucky. :blush:
 
Lyrebird_Cycles said:
FWIW I used to be the state QA/QC manager for a very large brewery (the blue one) so I actually know what I'm doing
indeed... its hard to make poor beer consistently the same level of terrible every batch :)
 
SBOB said:
indeed... its hard to make poor beer consistently the same level of terrible every batch :)
Much, much harder than you think.

This is not a defence, I think their beers suck and I personally don't drink them. The level of consistency achieved, however, is awesome.

In my experience craft brewers have the opposite problem: the beers might be interesting (though that's all too often in the Chinese proverbial sense of "interesting") but they are godawfully inconsistent.
 
In all seriousness are you testing beers only or hops as well? Unfamiliar with the proccesses.
 
Lyrebird_Cycles said:
Indeed, it seems to be more than most craft brewers can manage.

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Beer only. AFAIK hop analysis requires HPLC, while I have some experience with HPLC I haven't done it on hops and I don't have the equipment: I almost bought an HPLC machine a couple of years ago but I couldn't justify it.
 
HPLC - high performance lupulus confirmer.

Not all of their beers suck, comparatively speaking.
 
good4whatAlesU said:
HPLC - high performance lupulus confirmer.
Not all of their beers suck, comparatively speaking.
You are taking the piss with your hplc definition i hope....
 
I grow my own hops and tend to use the AA% of the current available commercial variety as a guide when adding them.
This works O.K but still have to tweak the following brews based on the first one.
I've also tried using 2 gms of commercial cascade vs 2gms of my cascade in equal part boiling water and tasting to gauge.
I don't really know a lot about seasonal variance in the AA% but would assume it wouldn't be to much to really spoil a beer.

Do you think if I did a single hop brew, then had the IBU tested, I could then alter the AA% of the hops in beersmith to determine the AA% of my hops with a degree of accuracy?

If so, do you think the seasonal variance in AA% would warrant testing each year?
I have 6 different varieties at this stage.

Cheers.
 
claypot said:
I grow my own hops and tend to use the AA% of the current available commercial variety as a guide when adding them.
This works O.K but still have to tweak the following brews based on the first one.
I've also tried using 2 gms of commercial cascade vs 2gms of my cascade in equal part boiling water and tasting to gauge.
I don't really know a lot about seasonal variance in the AA% but would assume it wouldn't be to much to really spoil a beer.

Do you think if I did a single hop brew, then had the IBU tested, I could then alter the AA% of the hops in beersmith to determine the AA% of my hops with a degree of accuracy?

If so, do you think the seasonal variance in AA% would warrant testing each year?
I have 6 different varieties at this stage.

Cheers.
not saying dont test, but if your rule of thumb is working now and you have no issues with it.. you dont have a problem..

I think its a great option I'd defo use, Ive a number of barrels I'd like to be able to adjust in weird *** blending experiments..

LBC.. yes dude.. yes
 
claypot said:
Do you think if I did a single hop brew, then had the IBU tested, I could then alter the AA% of the hops in beersmith to determine the AA% of my hops with a degree of accuracy?
It could be indicative but it wouldn't be reliable, there are too many confounding factors. I seem to remember there was a solvent extraction / isomerisation / UV absorbance method in EBC Analytica many years ago but I (stupidly) did not hang on to the copies of this to which I had access (and at about $1500 a copy you'd think I would)

claypot said:
If so, do you think the seasonal variance in AA% would warrant testing each year?
Absolutely, it can be +/- 50%
 
Lyrebird_Cycles said:
I seem to remember there was a solvent extraction / isomerisation / UV absorbance method in EBC Analytica many years ago but I (stupidly) did not hang on to the copies of this to which I had access (and at about $1500 a copy you'd think I would)
Is it something like this?

Alpha and Beta Acids in Hops
(reference: ASBC MoA. 8th edition, 1992)

Method:
  1. Place 5.000 +/- .001 gr pulverized hops in an extraction bottle and add 100 mL toluene.
  2. Shake for 30 min with vigorous agitation.
  3. Let stand until clear or centrifuge (preferred).
  4. Dilution A: Dilute 5.0 ml of this extract to 100 mL with methanol.
  5. Dilution B: Dilute an aliquot of the dilution A with alkaline methanol (0.2 mL 6M NaOH per 100 mL MeOH) so that the Abs at 325nm and 355nm falls within the most accurate range of the instrument.
  6. Immediately read dilution B (1 cm) at 275nm, 325nm and 355nm vs a toluene blank that was prepared and diluted in EXACTLY the same manner.
Notes:
  • Hexane may be substituted for toluene
Calculations:

Dilution factor, d= (volume dil A x volume dil B)/ (500 x aliq extract A x aliq dil A)

% alpha acids= d x (-51.56 A355+ 73.79 A325 - 19.07 A275)

% beta acids= d x (55.57 A355 - 47.59 A325 + 5.10 A275)

Example:
  1. 5 gr hops extracted with 10 mL toluene
  2. 5 mL clear extract diluted to 100 mL with methanol = Dilution A
  3. 3 mL Dilution A diluted to 50 mL with alkaline methanol
  4. Absorbances:
A355 = 0.615
A325 = 0.596
A275 = 0.132

d = (100 x 50) / (500 x 5 x 3) = 0.667

alpha = 0.667 x [ -(51.56 x 0.615) + (73.79 x 0.596) - (19.07 x 0.132) = 6.5%

beta = 0.667 x [ (55.57 x 0.615) - (47.59 x 0.596) + (5.10 x 0.132) = 4.3%
 
That would be the one, thanks.

My memory is obviously faulty, there's no isomerisation step.

Unfortunately it still needs a UV capable spectro and like most of these things the solvent purity required to make it reliable doesn't come cheap.
 
Always interested in the science, count me in for 2 tests a year.
 
Not so much for me although I am interested in comparing actual results with others' calculations and knowing which calcs/formulae come up the closest (including yours LC).

I don't even calc or weigh hops anymore.

However if an additional one or two from me was the difference between it happening and not happening (so I can read about it), then count me in.
 
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