English Styles

[tangent]

I want to brew a few more English style beers. I've grown fond of Maris and EKG and English yeasts.
Problem is, I want a Bitter with a real funky hop nose. The beer police told me an ESB doesn't have the hop nose. Killjoys.

Can someone fill me in on some of the English beer styles?

I tried a version of a Summer Ale which was really refreshing with the wheat.

Most of the bottle shop UK beers I've tried have been pretty damn bland, but obviously didn't travel well.

edit - Mods, I'm after AG recipes so please excuse my AG post.

 

[Malnourished]

Problem is, I want a Bitter with a real funky hop nose. The beer police told me an ESB doesn't have the hop nose. Killjoys.

The beer police done told you wrong.

Ever been to the Wig & Pen? Their IPA has this crazy British hop aroma that's like a mix of weeds, dried tarragon, sweat and cream cheese. I'd guess it's mostly Fuggles. Just because the British stuff you get here in bottles doesn't have any hop aroma left doesn't mean it's like that in Blighty. There have been a few British beers in Aus over the last few years which have had a decent hop character, but the only one that's around at the moment that I can think of is Belhaven Twisted Thistle (though apparently that uses some Cascade.)

Hop away, I say. I really like to dry-hop a bitter, but I must confess I use a lot less (1-2 plugs in a keg) than I would in an APA.

(Of course the hop aroma you get with UK hops is going to be rather different to what you'll get with US/NZ/wherever varieties.)

Edit: speling

 

[Kai]

My interpretation is that a bitter can have good aroma, it just does not dominate the bitterness. Maybe I'm being literal and letting the name confuse me.

 

[T.D.]

Tangent, I know exactly what you mean - I love a good hoppy English ale but most commercial ones out there seem to be pretty light on. I've brewed a couple in the past with a pretty healthy dose of late hops, and I usually stick them in Beersmith as an "English Pale Ale". Guidelines from Beersmith are below. In the "profile" section it mentions medium to high bitterness and hop aroma. I always figured that kind of covers "bitter" but with more assertive hop aroma. If this style had an OG range that started at 1.042 or so it would be perfect IMO.

English Pale Ale
Type: Ale
Category Number: 8C
Original Gravity: 1.048-1.065 SG
Color: 11.8-35.5 EBC
Final Gravity: 1.010-1.016 SG Bitterness: 30.0-55.0 IBU
Carbonation: 1.5-2.4 vols Alcohol by Volume: 4.6-6.2 %
Description: Famous style from Burton-on-Trent. Stronger body than ordinary bitter, but slightly less bitter. A balanced, easy drinking beer that is malty and strong but not overbearing.
Profile: Medium to full body, with medium to high bitterness and hop aroma. Dry with a defined hop flavor. Golden to copper color. Crystal malt evident. Low carbonation for kegs, medium for bottled version.
Ingredients: English pale, amber and/or crystal malts. English hops. Water with high sulfate profile enhances bitterness perception (i.e. famous Burton-on-Trent Water)
Examples: Bass Pale Ale, Whitbread Pale Ale, Royal Oak, Fullers ESB, Marston's Pedigree, Black Sheep Ale, Great Lakes Moondog Ale, Shipyard Old Thumper, Alaskan ESB, Adnams Broadside


I've had a chance to try a couple of KoNG's English ales that have been dry hopped with Styrian Goldings. The aroma was nothing short of sensational! I highly recommend this hop for dry hopping English beers.

 

[jayse]

Make whatever beer you want really. To say theres a few main english pale styles acording to so called guidelines is a little silly. That really is nonsense as you can make any beer which is anywhere from fairly pale to dark amber with any amount of whatever english ingredients and call it a english pale ale. The breweries themselves don't look at any guidelines and think wait we can't do that or we'll be out of style, it just doesn't work like that. Make whatever you like and be happy.
Guidelines are not even themselves as narrow as some people think, sure theres beers that fit right in the middle of them that some people think are the ducks guts of that style but in the end there really is not that many limitations with these style.

Just brew whatever beer it is thats in your brain. :super:




Boozed, broozed and broken boned.
Jayse

 

[tangent]

thanks guys.
i'm not brewing in accordance with brew police regulations but the comment about hop aroma in an ESB really threw me.
so Golden Promise, bitter with Bramling X and EKG all the way home?
I only have German Cara range, can i sub that for pommy xtal?

 

[Ross]

I only have German Cara range, can i sub that for pommy xtal?

YES... Caramunich goes particularly well in a bitter.

cheers Ross

 

[warrenlw63]

thanks guys.
i'm not brewing in accordance with brew police regulations but the comment about hop aroma in an ESB really threw me.
so Golden Promise, bitter with Bramling X and EKG all the way home?
I only have German Cara range, can i sub that for pommy xtal?

ESB is always a funny style classification. There's probably only one English derivative of it (Fullers) and all the rest are American micro wannabes (but probably nothing at all wrong with them) that slowly seem to go more OTT to be better than the next.

I reckon whatever you toss together with fresh ingredients will cut it. Main non-negotiable rule is you should use Marris Otter and English Ale yeast IMO. The rest can be as eclectic as you want it to be.

Second (or is that third?) the use of German Cara Malts. I've combined Cara Aroma with Baird's Crystal and Amber to give some really top flavours to a bitter. :beer:

Let the style Nazis be frustrated.

Warren -

 

[tangent]

all out of Maris but GP is unopened yet. what do you think?
I've never tried GP before.

 

[Tony]

I recon there is no substitute for good english crystal and chocolate malts.

Hops to use are Target for bittering only (it can be harsh so i dont use it any more), EKG of course, northdown, challenger, fuggle and progress IMO.

I haven tried progress yet but i have some waiting to get drowned.

here is a simple special bitter using only EKG and an ESB recipe i have planned

I have used IMC ale malt cause its all i have at the moment (50KG's of it) but i prefer MO!

The Special bitter has a simple malt bill with 10% english light (100ebc) cryatal. I want a nutty sweetness to ballance to bitterness and extra hops i have in it.

The ESB has some extras in it to darken it and add to malt complexity. I have also used a combo of EKG for its mild floral character, the northdown for its crisp refreshing bright finnish and will see what progress does when its on tap
I have heard its an intense aroma hop so should be great.

cheers

EKG bitter

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

08-B English Pale Ale, Special/Best/Premium Bitter

Min OG: 1.040 Max OG: 1.048
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 40
Min Clr: 10 Max Clr: 32 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 52.00 Wort Size (L): 52.00
Total Grain (kg): 10.00
Anticipated OG: 1.045 Plato: 11.26
Anticipated EBC: 15.3
Anticipated IBU: 37.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
90.0 9.00 kg. IMC Ale Malt Australia 1.038 4
10.0 1.00 kg. TF Crystal UK 1.034 100

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
100.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.00 25.7 45 min.
40.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.00 6.8 20 min.
50.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.00 5.1 10 min.
50.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.00 0.0 0 min.


Extras

Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
0.10 Oz Irish Moss Fining 10 Min.(boil)


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP005 British Ale




and the ESB......





Tonys ESB

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

08-C English Pale Ale, Extra Special/Strong Bitter

Min OG: 1.048 Max OG: 1.070
Min IBU: 30 Max IBU: 60
Min Clr: 12 Max Clr: 35 Color in EBC

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 46.00 Wort Size (L): 46.00
Total Grain (kg): 11.80
Anticipated OG: 1.060 Plato: 14.85
Anticipated EBC: 25.4
Anticipated IBU: 48.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
84.7 10.00 kg. IMC Ale Malt Australia 1.038 4
8.5 1.00 kg. TF Crystal UK 1.034 145
5.1 0.60 kg. JWM Wheat Malt Australia 1.040 4
0.8 0.10 kg. TF Amber Malt UK 1.033 100
0.8 0.10 kg. TF Pale Chocolate Malt UK 1.033 550

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
50.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.00 13.1 45 min.
30.00 g. Progress Pellet 5.70 8.9 45 min.
30.00 g. Wye Northdown Pellet 7.20 11.3 45 min.
30.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.00 4.2 15 min.
30.00 g. Progress Pellet 5.70 4.8 15 min.
30.00 g. Wye Northdown Pellet 7.20 6.1 15 min.
30.00 g. Goldings - E.K. Pellet 5.00 0.0 0 min.
30.00 g. Progress Pellet 5.70 0.0 0 min.
30.00 g. Wye Northdown Pellet 7.20 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP005 British Ale




cheers

 

[bconnery]

Previous posts are right. English ales give plenty of scope for good hop additions. They may not always be as in your face as the fruity APAs but they can have plenty of hop flavour and aroma.

I tried the Wig & Pen IPA on the weekend and it was all malt and spicy English hops. It was fantastic.

Ross will also extol the virtues of the excellent Hophead from Dark Star.

Plenty of english ales, particularly the ESBs and IPAs have hops at all stages.

Designing great beers suggests a bitterness unit to gravity unit ratio of 0.7 - 0.9 and also that most recipes will benefit from the addition of aroma hops and or dry hops...

I can recommend Progress too. It is an excellent bittering hop for an ESB or bitter.

First Gold is quite fruity but I love it. Excellent in a bitter or a golden/summer ale.

That's assuming you don't want the classic Fuggles, Goldings combination.

 

[warrenlw63]

all out of Maris but GP is unopened yet. what do you think?
I've never tried GP before.

Tangent

Just finished a bag of GP. While not a bad malt I must confess to being a little disappointed with it. Not as nutty/biscuity as MO. More just a high quality "pale" malt. Good for APA styles and could almost be compared to a fuller flavoured lager malt.

Warren -

 

[newguy]

Hop away, I say. I really like to dry-hop a bitter, but I must confess I use a lot less (1-2 plugs in a keg) than I would in an APA.

(Of course the hop aroma you get with UK hops is going to be rather different to what you'll get with US/NZ/wherever varieties.)

A member of my club brought his latest masterpiece to the last meeting: a best bitter. Wonderful hop aroma and a very mellow/rounded bitterness. His secret was mash hopping. He added 1.5x his 'normal' flavour/aroma addition directly to the mash instead of to the boil. The result was simply stunning. Very pronounced hop aroma, but the flavour and bitterness is very nice - not intense at all.

Sorry but I can't give you precise amounts.....he only said it was 1.5x what he'd normally add late in the boil. I'd guess 45 - 60g or so. He did also add bittering hops at the beginning of the boil.

Grain bill was very simple, approx. 90% ordinary 2-row and the rest medium crystal. OG 1.048 (he did tell me that), and IBUs I'd guess at being about 30 - 35 or so. Hope this helps you formulate your own recipe.

 

[barneyhanway]

I brew a lot of ordinary bitters, mainly strictly to style. BJCP states that they should have "moderate to low" hop aroma and flavour.
I formulated my recipe based on repeated listening to the Jamil Show podcast, an excellent resource on brewing to style.
But,
now I feel I've got the recipe and process down, its time to get a little more adventurous. Which means more hops. I don't necessarily want to up the bitterness, the balance in my ordinary bitter is fine, I just want more hop character.

My opinion is, thats what its all about. Be anal about brewing to style to get the jist of a particular style, recipe, system. Then go buck wild.

Or just brew what you want to start with.
"Let the style nazi's be frustrated"... hehehe, I like that Warren.

So has anyone got a list of suggestions for late hops (or mash hops, good tip newguy) other than goldings/fuggles/willamette?

 

[Wortgames]

A lot of English ales use European hops like Saaz and Hallertauer for aroma (if they use aroma hops at all - remember that many don't), but you can't go past EKG for real English character.

 

[kook]

ESB is always a funny style classification. There's probably only one English derivative of it (Fullers) and all the rest are American micro wannabes (but probably nothing at all wrong with them) that slowly seem to go more OTT to be better than the next.

I reckon whatever you toss together with fresh ingredients will cut it. Main non-negotiable rule is you should use Marris Otter and English Ale yeast IMO. The rest can be as eclectic as you want it to be.

Second (or is that third?) the use of German Cara Malts. I've combined Cara Aroma with Baird's Crystal and Amber to give some really top flavours to a bitter. :beer:

Let the style Nazis be frustrated.

Warren -

Dons flame suit h34r:

In my opinion, most of the BJCP british styles are a bit funny. How the hell Fullers ESB and Hopback Summer Lightning are anywhere near alike beats me.

Personally, if you're brewing a bitter, ignore BJCP. I've had some lovely bitters that had a strong hop aroma and flavour, which would be completely out of style for judging.

If you want to brew something specifically for competitions, stick with BJCP. If you want to play around (like real UK brewers do!), go for it.

I've got to agree with warren though, english base malt and yeast is a big part of the beers. When it comes to specialty malt and hops though, go for your life. Some of the best british beers (including recent GBBF winners) use foreign hops. Just keep the carbonation down though, nobody likes a fizzy bitter.

Don't get me started on Scottish Ale(s) and the fact that many of the commercial cask examples from the UK fit better into the EPA styles. That said, the keg and bottle versions available in the US are usually brewed to completely different recipes for american tastes. h34r:

 

[Tseay]

If you are looking for something different in hopping you might want to investigate the following:

My son has put me onto a welsh beer he tried and liked recently, Brains SA Gold, an English Golden Ale that uses target for bittering, but Cascade and S.Goldings for flavor and aroma. Next project after the blended version of Newkie Broon.


http://www.sabrain.com/index.cfm?UUID=A8BB...CEFA153488AADB1

 

[Stuster]

In my opinion, most of the BJCP british styles are a bit funny. How the hell Fullers ESB and Hopback Summer Lightning are anywhere near alike beats me.

Personally, if you're brewing a bitter, ignore BJCP.

Totally agree. Basing the distinctions between the different bitter styles purely on gravity seems completely artificial to me. I agree on the basics that do make a bitter - good malt, flavourful yeast, low carbonation.

A closer to home example of a great beer made like this, but with different hops, is the Wig and Pen Pale Ale. IIRC it's Maris Otter, Cascade hops, served on a hand pull. :chug: :super: Any Canberrans know what yeast they use? The recipe?

 

[KoNG]

I'm halfway through a bag of GP and i like it.. although it doesnt have the character of MO, i've found a little dash of amber or the likes helps lift it a little. Styrian is definately my choice for late additions and for an all round hop i cant go past northdown, which seems to have a smokey aroma from the bag!?!

There is quite a few threads discussing the style.. including the style of the month series. No time to link them now... maybe tonight.

As for 'style' i use it for a starting point with my recipe's, but then its out the window! natural likes and dislikes for certain elements in a beer take over and it usually results in beersmith highlighting all the places that my beer is out of place for the style i chose..!!

 

[Voosher]

I didn't read all posts in detail but I saw a couple of points mentioned that I'll agree with.

1. If you want to brew a British Ale see what they taste like and ignore BJCP guidelines.

2. My favourite distinctive hop for a British Ale (at the moment anyway) is Styrian Goldings predominantly for aroma... Think Timothy Taylors Landlord, think Deuchars IPA.