Dry Versus Ferment Hopping

[Cocko]

I just wanted to be a part of this thread but didn't know what font or size to post in...

Anyway...

2c

 

[bum]

Thank you. Now that we've sorted that out - can you please answer two questions for me (again, understanding that I completely accept that Batch A ("ferment hopped") was widely accepted as being better than Batch B (dry hopped) and therefore I also accept that it is better):

Why do you attribute the poorer reception of Batch B to the extra hops not having been been in the boil when the extra hops in the better beer weren't either?

and

Why do you suggest that the extra hops being added at primary don't get scrubbed out by CO2/fermentation when the extra hops being in primary is the only difference between the two beers?

[EDIT - second question was slightly vague]

 

[jonocarroll]

Yes I suppose it must be "dry" hopping

Not in the boil ( wet hopping)

Yes, that's exactly correct. That's exactly what wet hopping is, because that's the only case in which the hops get wet. They remain perfectly dry in the fermentor.

On another note, here's some further good tips that don't in any way confuse already defined practices via their names:

- You can use malted barley to prevent a stuck sparge -the malted bit is the bit that falls off the grain in summer.
- A hydrometer should be used to measure the amount of mash-in water to required by placing it in the dry grain to measure moisture, hence 'hydro-meter'.
- If you over-hop a beer, you can use a hop-back to take some of the 'hops back'.

<_<

 

[DanRayner]

Yes I suppose it must be dry hopping

Not in the boil ( wet hopping)

Just to be confusing - I think "wet hopping" (at least in the US) refers to the use of really fresh, straight off the bine, harvest, undried hops

 

[bum]

Just to be confusing - I think "wet hopping" (at least in the US) refers to the use of really fresh, straight off the bine, harvest, undried hops

lol

I think the correct terminology is "worted t-90 pelletised hops hopping" or, the more common acronym, WT90PHH.

 

[Hatchy]

My personal favourite of all the LOLs in this thread:

[EDIT - Now look what you've done! You've got me so flustered I mixed up their and they're! Oh the shame of it all!]

Bum, I'm sure it wouldn't have only been me that would've thought less of you if you didn't correct that typo.

QB, I've got a suspicion that my dry hops get wet when I drop them in the fermenter. Is there a dry hop maintainer that I could spend several thousand dollars on that would keep those hops dry? I'm also concerned that when I open the bag the moisture in the air may get into my hops & wet my dry hops. Should I dry hop in a vacuum?

I'm off to build a hop back. This beer is way too hoppy so I'm going to balance it with the hop back tactic. Thanks for putting me onto that one.

 

[speedie]

Typical drivel from posters that only drivel

If all of you truly astute brewers put more thought into your beers then and only then individually your knowledge will improve

Dont slag unless you have a bigger rock

 

[bum]

Typical drivel from posters that only drivel

Thank you for that handy reader advisory notice. Saved me a lot of time.

 

[speedie]

Not sure how to go about my assumption on ferment hopping (dry for the sack of some pedantic brewers) but from obviation in the boil there is a lot of action in the wort, so there would be a fair amount of friction going on



Which would cause some sort of electro action (positive / negative charges) which bring about a clumping of particulate

This aids in flocculation of the colloidal matter which gives rise to hazing effect



Now if we take on the ferment hopping aspect of the exercise one could put a similar spin on what is happening in the ferment action



There is a tremendous amount of rolling going on in the wort due to the release of Co2 so I would assume that this would produce a similar phenomenon with respect to electro attraction

Thus bringing about a clear haze free beer



Now the end result is one brew has a colloidal appearance with very grassy notes and the other is brilliant with a balance that is more evident to most samplers



So from basic thought and observation we have attempted to rationalize a thought process into reality



Hay the up side of it is there is still about three hundred liters to taste



Cheers speedie

 

[manticle]

My own personal experience only but I'm not convinced that dry hopping of any sort necessitates haze. Most of my dry hopped beers come out clear (I get chill haze often but rarely drink my beers that cold. If it worried me, polyclar or extended lagering are my friends).

I have read about haze as a result of dry hopping and I have had many another HBer's high hopped beers that exhibit haze so I don't doubt that hop oils can contribute but you can make dry hopped beers that are clear without filtering.

@Speedie - As far as I understand, part of your experiment was to see if fermentation scrubbed hop flavour and aroma.

Your results suggest that is the case - even if drinkers prefer the one dry hopped during active fermentation, the one dry hopped after has more flavour/aroma (even if it is grassy and less preferred).

 

[beerbrewer76543]

5 pages of absoulte garbage

Good experiment, shame about the shit fight

 

[MHB]

Not sure how to go about my assumption on ferment hopping (dry for the sack of some pedantic brewers) but from obviation in the boil there is a lot of action in the wort, so there would be a fair amount of friction going on



Which would cause some sort of electro action (positive / negative charges) which bring about a clumping of particulate

This aids in flocculation of the colloidal matter which gives rise to hazing effect



Now if we take on the ferment hopping aspect of the exercise one could put a similar spin on what is happening in the ferment action



There is a tremendous amount of rolling going on in the wort due to the release of Co2 so I would assume that this would produce a similar phenomenon with respect to electro attraction

Thus bringing about a clear haze free beer



Now the end result is one brew has a colloidal appearance with very grassy notes and the other is brilliant with a balance that is more evident to most samplers



So from basic thought and observation we have attempted to rationalize a thought process into reality



Hay the up side of it is there is still about three hundred liters to taste



Cheers speedie

Frankly speedie, that's complete rubbish
First Dry hopping has always referred to adding hops outside the brewhouse i.e. in the ferment or later. You choosing to redefine the term doesn't make everyone else a pedant!

Now your contentions, friction between particulates in the kettle "rubbing" together create some sort of electro negativity. I suspect you are thinking of those old demonstrations where a plastic rod rubbed with a silk hankie acquires a charge and will pick up bits of paper. Try it wet, it won't work, the charges will all just dissipate.

"This aids in flocculation of the colloidal matter which gives rise to hazing effect"
FFS it is the "Flocculation" of clumped matter that clarifies beer (and any other liquid) go and read a definition of flocculate

Again there is no sensible content in the rest of your post, an assumption that some force is being created is baseless and there is no link to grassy flavour and electric charges. It's a straight forward matter of hop (and some stale grain) fractions going into solution. If you add hops to a wort/beer some components will dissolve some wont, the amount of sugars in solution, temperature, alcohol content (a great solvent) the amount of volatiles scrubbed out by CO2 are all really quite well understood. Primarily it's down to the amount of hops you add after the kettle and the amount of flavour/aroma in those hops. As an example Chinook is going to throw grassy flavours about twice as readily as will any of the old varieties simply because it contains about twice as much of the grassy fraction. If you want lots of hop goodies without grassy characters use the old varieties.

Oh and please a little less aggressive use of the return key, it will make reading your post easier.

MHB

 

[speedie]

try it for yourself your brew highness mhb
you must be an all seeing thinking really well educated retailer
you do some reseach mr put you down
speedie

 

[speedie]

thihk about how lightning occurs numbnuts

 

[manticle]

I'm not following Speedie. What does lightning have to do with hop haze and dry hopping?

 

[jonocarroll]

thihk about how lightning occurs numbnuts

Right, lightning happens because water rubs against water... wow.

By that reasoning, perhaps your beer makes people's hair stand on end... your sentences certainly do.

If you actually think it is friction causing clarity, fine. Think that. Stop trying to convince people who know better, and f*ck off and be happy making beer you don't understand the first thing about (seriously, this is a fine position to be in, just stop sharing your thoughts on it). If, however, you want to keep having 'discussions' about the science of what's going on - read a book, get an actual idea (yes, this stuff is well known and is fully studied, much more than your brilliant new idea experiment), then ask a question, rather than spouting BS.

 

[bonj]

Nature of Beer Hazes

 

[Shed101]

Hmmm beer makes me hazy

 

[Midnight Brew]

Hmmm beer makes me hazy

Seriously, how good is home made beer! It makes me very hazy, especially BribeG's double headbanger stout!!!

 

[MHB]

Nature of Beer Hazes

Very good link

Well worth a read, it has all the basic information in one place and ties it all together well.
MHB