Dry Versus Ferment Hopping

[speedie]

dan check out my post under citra hop in recpiets and ingredients
there is twenty hop base there
will post when tasted

 

[DanRayner]

dan does it have that resinous aroma and flavour that epic has?

Yup, the coarseness of it had settled down after I kegged and cooled it for a bit and that's when a light resiny flavour came through - but in mine there was more of a malt sweetness and so may not have been as pronounced (a bit sweeter than the Epic version - I guess my mashing was a bit high?)

 

[bum]

Speedie, can you please clarify what you mean by "ferment hop"? They way I've been reading the comparison is that they're both hop additions added to the fermenter - one at beginning of primary and one at secondary but your conclusions indicate that the reason you think dry hopping is undesirable is because there's hops that have never seen the boil. When and how is this "ferment hop" addition made? Is this actually just a comparison between dry-hopping and nothing?

 

[MHB]

I occasionally dry hop a keg with a plug of an appropriate hop (which for me boils down to Cascade, EKG or Styrians) encased in a giant tea ball. 4* kindly sent me one he'd got in Vietnam and I can't seem to find any locally otherwise I'd do it more often.

As I've posted, plugs exist because they are exactly the right size to slip through the spile hole of a UK real ale cask and I would bet that the reason plugs are now available in every sort of variety is
<speculation>
The plug company (ies) found that they had spare capacity
There's a demand from home brewers and others because plugs travel better and are more compact so possibly keep better as well so most are probably used in the boil, not as a dry hopper.
So lets plug everything we can get our hands on - yeehaah
</speculation>

but that doesn't mean that any plug makes a good keg hopper. My current styrian-plugged "Promised Gold" yorkie is just what I was aiming for.

Traditionally yes thats where the Hop Plug came from but its grown from there.

You are probably aware that Australia has (fortunately) very strict quarantine rules regarding hops. New Zealand being the only country we can import Hop Flowers from as we have in common an almost disease free hop industry and AQUIS is working to keep it that way.

Hop Plugs (also called type 100 pellets as they are 100% hop flower) are the minimum standard Hop Flowers can be processed to and be accepted for importation into Australia. One of the importers goes to a fair amount of effort to make sure that hops are plugged just for the local market. Otherwise we wouldnt have access to some of the great hops of the world in their raw form.

MHB

 

[speedie]

Bum firstly seasons greetings to you

If you have read through this post you will understand that we have attempted to rationalize the difference between dry and ferment hop

In the procedure the hop additions were done exactly the same and at the same time frame

The only difference is that there was hop added prior to fermentation and the same amount was added to the second split batch post fermentation ie after racking to conditioning at 2 degrees

Both beers are good but the ferment hopped brew is (perception wise) better

If you have any doubts about this proposition try it for your self

We are only here for the beer!

speedie

 

[speedie]

mhb

do you think that the likes of little critters and other breweries have access to international flowers

other than NZ?flowers (cascade)etc

 

[speedie]

dan it woulkd appear that you are running your brew at around 11.5 grams/litre
and most of that bulk is in the dry hop stage
the brew that i put together is only 4 grams/litre and i sort of thought that that may be too much
only time will tell
thanks for your reply
speedie

 

[bum]

If you have read through this post you will understand that we have attempted to rationalize the difference between dry and ferment hop

I most certainly have read it but your constant refusal to use an accepted form of English does make it hard to be sure of what it is you're trying to say.

The only difference is that there was hop added prior to fermentation and the same amount was added to the second split batch post fermentation ie after racking to conditioning at 2 degrees

If this is the case then why is your twice suggested conclusion that dry-hopping is inferior due to the hops never having seen the boil?

Both beers are good but the ferment hopped brew is (perception wise) better

If you have any doubts about this proposition try it for your self

I assure you that should I ever want to do an experiment entitled "Do my mates like dry hops?" I'll be sure to follow your method.

Thank you for inventing homebrew, speedie.

 

[speedie]

It seems that even when I am polite and give some constructive point of view

You always stoop to sarcasm for a response

Any way as stated enjoy your coming year



:icon_chickcheers:

 

[bum]

Thanks and same to you. I hope your health issues are resolving themselves quickly and painlessly.

But please, for the love of Christ, address the point of my bloody question and then maybe, just once, your complete inability to communicate through text won't draw my scorn.

Seriously. If you say neither of the differing hop additions saw the kettle then why does the dry hops not having seen the boil end up the culprit in the less preferred beer? And if the only difference between the two additions is that one test brew had the extra hops in during fermentation why do you assert that the act of fermentation doesn't alter the result?

I'm not doing this because I don't like you (which is true) but because I'm trying to work out what the hell it is you're saying.

 

[speedie]

Bum if one batch is bright and well balanced and the other has a haze through it and seems to be less appreciated

I would suggest that ferment hopping was for this brew a good improvement

Also it was an experiment for me in assessing the merit in this approach to a brewing concept that was put forward at one of the Covent meetings

Of which I freely post results to the brewing enthusiast

speedie :blink:

 

[bum]

I...urgh!!!

Can you please take a moment to have a look at my last post and tell me if I am interpreting your conclusions fairly or not? I will stress that I am not suggesting that people didn't prefer the "ferment" hopped brew (whatever the hell that means, I'm still in the dark on that one - as far as I can tell they're both dry-hopped but one is scrubbed out and the other isn't).

[EDIT - Now look what you've done! You've got me so flustered I mixed up their and they're! Oh the shame of it all!]

 

[goomboogo]

Bum, I think you're on the right track. I think. Both beers were dry hopped. The only difference being, when the hops were placed in the fermenter. I'm sure you know that the timing of dry hopping has long been discussed. Even before speedie was brewing.

 

[Bribie G]

I prefer hop tea. Would that be wet hopped?

 

[bum]

I think.

But it is just so hard to be sure!

Doesn't help when he says the dry hopped 'one' is probably not to his taste because the hops haven't be in the boil (valid position, of course, but it confuses the issue when the one that is great presumably hasn't been boiled either?) or that fermentation doesn't scrub out hopping because he likes the first one better. I can't make head nor tail of it.

 

[felten]

But it is just so hard to be sure!

Doesn't help when he says the dry hopped 'one' is probably not to his taste because the hops haven't be in the boil (valid position, of course, but it confuses the issue when the one that is great presumably hasn't been boiled either?) or that fermentation doesn't scrub out hopping because he likes the first one better. I can't make head nor tail of it.

This is where the ignore function comes in handy, ignorance is bliss.

 

[Effect]

I...urgh!!!

+1

Bum, he can't understand you if you don't type in the correct font...



Speedie, how would I do this experiement at home?

Do I split a batch into fermenter A and fermenter B and then add hops into fermenter A during primary fermentation and add hops into fermenter B during secondary (at 2 degrees?)?

 

[MHB]

mhb

do you think that the likes of little critters and other breweries have access to international flowers

other than NZ?flowers (cascade)etc

To the best of my knowledge Little Creatures had a special import permit and were using Cascade and Chinook flowers, they had to destroy all the expended hops in an incinerator.
That really isn't rational, if the hops aren't sterile when they come out of the kettle every brewer in the world is screwed. I suspect there would have been a bunch of other restrictions on storage and handling to.
Apparently the hop mix at LC has changed so no idea what they are doing now.

MHB

 

[dr K]

MHB's memory fits closely with mine.
My memory shows me a website circa 2001 with a by line "We thought we better get the band back together" and a photograph of a woman holding two cusped handfulls of overflowing cascade hop flowers from the US. It also described how the beers were shipped refrigerated to the East Coast.
Little Creatures certainly had to have a special permit, and as MHB suggests I feel it was more about "bond" storage than anything, the incineration of the boiled flowers seems pointless but in a way so sensible.
K

 

[speedie]

Yes I suppose it must be dry hopping

Not in the boil ( wet hopping)

Phucking funny thing hops

As Nike indicates just do it!