Different wort aeration kits

[Zorco]

then there isn't currently any disposable kit being sold thats going to tick that box...

So far as the options presented in this thread to date.... CORRECT.

Unless you re-purpose the tradeflame welding kit with the inclusive reg/gauge. $299

I think that's the only one..... That's the one I took a photo of at Bunnings last night. The yellow box on the left was the kit.

 

[SBOB]

yeah, I think you're wrong mate. And I can support it. My company doesn't have an ISO subscription at the moment but this is handy

https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:5171:ed-3:v1:en

On the left you have the TOC you can expand Section 5 down to 5.1.2. There you see a dedicated section for Oxygen.

That standard covers many... you want Oxygen specific. ISO 5171 marked means stuff all for meeting oxygen requirements.

5.1.2
Bourdon tubes and other Parts in contact with the gas shall be resistant to the Chemical action of the Oxygen and shall not be flammable under operating conditions.

Thread sealants or sealing rings shall also be resistant to the Chemical action of the Oxygen and shall not be flammable under operating conditions.

Components in contact with Oxygen gas shall conform to ISO 9539.
Only Iubricants suitable for use in Oxygen at the service pressure and temperature shall be used.

 

[SBOB]

Edit: Soz SBOB...removed the grumpy in the first line.

ha.. dont worry about it

Considering this is all just a research/investigation debate none of us should be taking any of the agreement/disagreements personally..
Though this kind of investigation goes to show why things like standards documentation probably should be something that the regular 'Joe' on the street cant access without paying huge $. If consumer purchasable items should adhere to certain standards, those standards should be discoverable, researchable and verifiable
This thread shows how difficult or full of assumptions that process seems to be

 

[Lyrebird_Cycles]

WARNING: OFF TOPIC

If consumer purchasable items should adhere to certain standards, those standards should be discoverable, researchable and verifiable
This thread shows how difficult or full of assumptions that process seems to be

Tell me about it.

The ISO promulgated a new standard for testing of bicycle frames a year or so back, effectively superseding the Euronorm (EN 14781) that had been the de facto world standard. Athough I already had a copy of the EN, I signed up to SAI Global and bought the ISO (4210) which comes in six parts at $170 each part.

On receiving the new ISO 4210-6 (the relevant standard for road bikes) I found that it was effectively identical to EN14781. Not happy Jan.

 

[MHB]

In the absence of an AS an ISO, US and European standards are often used for guidance.
Just because Europe requires the Use No Oil description/mark, that doesn't mean its a "Requirement" under what passes for rules here.
Our legal system is very strongly bases the behaviour on reasonable people and personal responsibility.
In this case you would be ill-advised to sell a regulator that didn't meet some safety standard, and be able to prove to a judge that you did so. Otherwise the seller would be personally liable for any harm.

And no, international standards are easily available - Just PAY, its a cost of doing business. I don't know if it's still the case but all public libraries used to have access to all of the Australian Standards, they could be assessed free by the public.

So there is nothing under Australian "Law/Rules/Regulations..." that requires the gauge on a regulator used on disposable bottles to display Use no Oil description or symbol. But the regulator and gauge better comply with accepted standards or someone will be carrying their nuts home in a handbag.

Mark

 

[Coldspace]

So is the regulator that is sold by Hampdon welding that comes with a 1 ltr oxygen bottle the same as my Bossweld reg?

Looks identical from the photo.

 

[SBOB]

So is the regulator that is sold by Hampdon welding that comes with a 1 ltr oxygen bottle the same as my Bossweld reg?

Looks identical from the photo.

yep... exactly the same one
along with 02 bottles that apparently are no longer available

 

[Coldspace]

yep... exactly the same one
along with 02 bottles that apparently are no longer available

Well looks like they are still available , and those bottles look identical to my trade flame bottle just diff sticker.

If they are selling these for welding or cutting, then I'm still going to use mine for wort bubbling .

Just after I use it, I'll disconnect it to stop the reg leaking slowly and store the bottle with its rubber cap on and the reg sealed up in a bag or container to prevent crap getting in it.

Is this how some of you do it?

 

[Coldspace]

BTW guys, for ales are you bubbling for say 1 min at 2 ltrs a min and maybe 90 secs for lagers?

 

[GalBrew]

So how about the Fermentap setup sold by Brewmart? Has a little brass regulator with no gauge to use on Bernzomatic oxygen bottles.

 

[TheWiggman]

A bit of perspective on this - because something isn't deemed as safe doesn't make it unsafe, and because something is deemed as safe doesn't automatically make it safe. A 'non-compliant' (ie advertised as acceptable for a few gasses or doesn't contain a stamp/logo) regulator or gauge may well be safe for oxygen (but you wouldn't want to bet that it is). Don't automatically assume that there is a high risk it will blow up instantaneously on first use because in reality you are more likely to crash your car tomorrow going to work. But that doesn't mean you should get any old gauge with gay abandon, because just like driving your car you stand a better chance of not crashing if the manufacturer has installed all the safety features and followed appropriate design standards. It's up to the buyer to decide and use, dare I say, common sense.
Conversely, I recall an incident a few years back on a site with an oxygen cylinder. The gauge WAS O2 designed, had a flashback arrester on it and the cylinder was well within its inspection period. One morning though the boily blasted the oxy handle and BOOM! Regulator flew off and shit got dramatic fast. Fortunately nobody was injured. The cause was some crap in the reg from poor handling which ignited in the fashion mentioned in this thread. No amount of approvals or research can prevent that.
My point is use common sense picking the right reg. If a supplier has done their research there's near enough to zero chance of you ever encountering an issue. You also need to take care of how you handle it at home, because you're more likely to cause harm through accidentally getting dirt in the thread than not putting a 'use no oil' stamp on it.

 

[MHB]

This is the point....It isn't strange.. it is wrong. You may well find one of us pursing this with a federal regulator.

MHB said he would do something similar.... But I'd understand it if he was cashed in on this one.

I'll make some calls tomorrow.


Edit: Soz SBOB...removed the grumpy in the first line.

I did some follow up, in summary
The people who sell the regulators fall into two groups
1/ Those that sell an Oxygen regulator and an Oxygen bottle. Tradeflame only sell their bottle as a spare part/consumable for their brazing kit which has an Oxygen regulator, and the bottle/regulator sold be Brewman, the Benzomatic bottle regulator combination...
2/ Those that sell welding (CO2,Argon, inert gas) regulators and gasses that aren't recommended for use with O2. These don't sell an O2 bottle (one has to wonder why)

The problems occur when someone takes components from disparate systems and mixes them up. Unfortunately its hard to stop people being stupid, but the manufactures/suppliers aren't really responsible. I strongly suspect that the O2 bottles will have in the fine print a warning about them only being suitable for very specific connection to the sellers own equipment. I'm sure that there is someone reading their bottle to prove me wrong.. please do so, but I will be surprised.

Mark

 

[SBOB]

I did some follow up, in summary
The people who sell the regulators fall into two groups
1/ Those that sell an Oxygen regulator and an Oxygen bottle.

Hampdon, 'Australias Online Welding Shop' is one that seems to fit this bill

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Disposable-Gas-Bottle-PURE-OXYGEN-1x-l-litre-Bottle-Combo-Oxy-LPG-Acet-600037-/111621305999

 

[MHB]

Please, we have already established that Bossgas have discontinued their O2 bottles, just because someone has chosen to keep selling their old stock.

As above its hard to stop people being stupid, about half of them are dumber than average.
Mark

 

[mstrelan]

Hampdon, 'Australias Online Welding Shop' is one that seems to fit this bill

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Disposable-Gas-Bottle-PURE-OXYGEN-1x-l-litre-Bottle-Combo-Oxy-LPG-Acet-600037-/111621305999

I contacted that seller towards the start of this thread and he said it would be fine to use. I actually suggested he add his two cents to this thread and he said he would take a look, but not sure if he had the time.

 

[technobabble66]

Though this kind of investigation goes to show why things like standards documentation probably should be something that the regular 'Joe' on the street cant access without paying huge $. If consumer purchasable items should adhere to certain standards, those standards should be discoverable, researchable and verifiable
This thread shows how difficult or full of assumptions that process seems to be

^+1,000,000!!!
I tried researching the various Australian standards over a couple of hours today and just hit pay walls the whole way.
What a ******* joke!!
How the hell are you meant to know what the appropriate standard is, what it means, and whether a particular item complies?!?!
Which fuckwit or group of fuckwits signed off on that brilliant scheme of segregating such a critical collection of consumer information behind a paywall?!
Of course that doesn't cover the minor issue of the "average person" trying to understand it *if* they could get to the applicable standards, but at least have them accessible!
******* ridiculous!

Bah! Where's that rant thread....

 

[SBOB]

Please, we have already established that Bossgas have discontinued their O2 bottles, just because someone has chosen to keep selling their old stock.

Whether it's a current item or not, here we have a decent sized industrial retailer of welding supplies selling that regulator with a disposable oxygen bottle.. As a functioning oxygen kit..

Which means at some stage this was a current model regulator being sold with current model disposable gas cylinders..

They must be one of those ones on the dumb side then I guess...

 

[SBOB]

As above its hard to stop people being stupid, about half of them are dumber than average.
Mark

I think it's better to compare people against the median instead of average, it's more accurate as there are those really dumb ones bringing down the average...

 

[Crusty]

So how about the Fermentap setup sold by Brewmart? Has a little brass regulator with no gauge to use on Bernzomatic oxygen bottles.

Nothing stamped on those little suckers.
Never heard of any explosions though to date.

 

[Crusty]

Please, we have already established that Bossgas have discontinued their O2 bottles, just because someone has chosen to keep selling their old stock.

As above its hard to stop people being stupid, about half of them are dumber than average.
Mark

I think you'll find they stopped selling the oxygen cylinders due to a lack of sales. It certainly wasn't due to any safety concerns.
I spoke with them on the phone about it a couple of days ago.