detergents in liquid bleach--a threat to head retention?

[yankinoz]

Liquid bleach is a sodium hypochlorite solution. When pure, such a solution does not produce suds when shaken. It looks like some of the liquid bleach available in Australian retail outlets contains detergents, even though they are not listed among the "active" ingredients. For example, Coles bleach produces lots of suds. I posted a question about possible detergent residues to White King on their website and have received no answer.

Liquid bleach remains a cheap and effective cleaner for glass, but I don't want residues screwing up head retention. Does anyone know of liquid bleaches that are free from detergents and available in Australia?

Oxyper is great, and I use it on fermenters and brew kettles, but expensive for cleaning a rack of bottles.

Not all detergents leave residues, In a lab where I worked we had detergents we used on glassware used for analyses, and they had to rinse clean. But the typical dishwater detergents are very hard to wash out. Try them on your hair, let it dry, and comb. You'll see. My worry is the same detergents end up in liquid bleach.

 

[barls]

try pure sodium percabonate.

 

[manticle]

If there's any remnants from sodium hypochlorite solution in your brewing, head retention is the least of your worries

 

[Danscraftbeer]

So it comes down to more rinsing then?

 

[earle]

We've been trained by marketing to believe that froth and suds means that a cleaning agent is doing a good job. I reckon white king bleach must have detergent as it produces quite a bit of froth. Aldi bleach does not produce froth, I figured as it didn't it must not be good as the White King stuff but you've now got me thinking about switching back to the aldi stuff.

 

[yankinoz]

Thanks. I only noticed problems after using Coles bleach, despite rinsing each bottle six times. I agree that sodium hypochlorite would do beer harm, but it is highly soluble and should rinse out easily. The hair test, which I really did, indicates that a commercial dishwashing product contains detergents that adhere to hair surfaces. On glass too? Maybe.

I'll try returning to Aldi's product and see what happens. Again, I would use sodium percarbonate (Oxyper), as I do for plastics, but liquid bleach is cheap and easy to get. I have to order Oxyper.

Napisan also contains detergents, along with something like 40% sodium percarbonate, but I would assume they do not use hard-to-rinse detergents on nappies for delicate skins. Why dish detergent manufacturers like residues escapes me.

 

[manticle]

You can get large bags of pure percarb (25kg) pretty cheaply.
I do not know but might be worth checking purity of pool chlorine. Presumably no need for surfactants, etc.

 

[Whiteferret]

We make sodium hypochlorite bleach at work it also contains caustic and gardiquat or gardinol(surfactants) as well as a perfume mix to make it smell nice. It might get things clean but fucked if I'd use it for any of my beer stuff. If you're after straight hypo go to the pool shop.

spelling

 

[yankinoz]

Pool shop, hadn't thought of that. Thanks.

 

[Whiteferret]

Oh and we make Whiteking and the equivalent stuff for coles, woolworths, aldi and iga even the regular no perfume added stuff has the surfactants in it.

 

[Whiteferret]

Just be careful with straight hypo it's dangerous shit.

 

[Goose]

Just be careful with straight hypo it's dangerous shit.

Indeed. Please don't put a few drops of brake fluid on a few mounds of it and see what happens....

 

[pcmfisher]

We don't seem to worry about the foam (surfactant) in Starsan.
Do we?

 

[MHB]

We don't seem to worry about the foam (surfactant) in Starsan.
Do we?

I do
Mark

 

[Goose]

I do
Mark

why ?

 

[TheWiggman]

I'm guessing because along with the surfactant comes a compound with an undesirable flavour. In high enough quantities it's detectable, but this would all depend on sensitivity to it. Personally I'd rather something that doesn't have it at all if the option's available.

 

[pcmfisher]

why ?

Is there a safe level of surfactant for beer?

 

[Matplat]

Indeed. Please don't put a few drops of brake fluid on a few mounds of it and see what happens....

Here's a big shiny red button.... but don't push it h34r:

 

[MHB]

Two guys above pretty much covered it
Instead of relying on AHB conventional wisdom Google up the detergent used in Starsan and decide for yourself how much you want in your beer.
I concluded that zero is the right answer for me, so yes I do worry about how much is left in my beer, also pay attention to the amount of I2 that could be left from Iodophor and the amount of Carbonate from Sodium Percarbonate if you miss use them to.

I guess I really want my beer to consist entirely of beer not industrial chemicals - large part of why I home brew!
Mark

 

[TheWiggman]

Actually I found that Fivestar recommend for Star San:
"Just prior to start-up rinse with potable water and follow state and local Health Department regulations covering start up sanitation"

So no-rinse, but recommend it be rinsed. Star San is listed as 'high foaming' with the intent of sticking to surfaces. They have a low foaming product (Saniclean) intended as a 'final rinse' sanitiser, and a true no-rinse product IO star (iodopher).