Dedicated Herms Guide, Problems And Solution Thread

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Hmm, agree with most above re placement of the probe nearest to the hottest point of the closed system. A few things I would try. Use a rounded volume of around 2.75 - 2.8 L/kg. Add water to the tun and begin recirculation, when the recirculating water temp is stable at your mash temp add the grist and stir only a few turns. After 30 seconds to allow for grits and flour to clear the pump head throttle back the pump output to prevent compaction of the grainbed (I use about 1/4 throttle). Temp will drop back slightly after adding the grist, once the recirculating wort is back up to temp start your mash timer. My best eff 92%+ comes at 75 min rest length, 90 min gives no further improvement, 60 min results in lower eff. After the timer goes off at 75 min lift controller set temp to 77C for the mash out rest. After 10 min or so check recirculating wort temp, if up to mash out temp (77) give the mash a few gentle turns with the mash paddle then set the timer for a 10 min mash out rest. I continuous sparge with water at 77 pumped via the HEX to maintain temp while gravity draining at .5L/min to the kettle. If batch sparging add sparge water as normal.

Watch mash times, there is a sweet spot with all systems, lengthen out the sacch rest time by 15 min, if you note a gain in eff lengthen again by another 15 min, repeat until there is no further increase in eff. Be sure your recirculating wort is at temp before starting the mash timer. Recirculating slowly reduces channeling and allows for a more open grainbed. As you will now not have high combined temps you should notice a marked improvement in attenuation.

Cheers,

Screwy

Agree with Screwy in most of the above although underletting at 35 deg c & ramping up to your next step is another alternative. Probe to be close as possible to HEX outlet & ALL lines the shortest you can make them. Never have to worry about grainbed compaction at full throttle with my 315 except with lots of rye\wheat. Perhaps that's why my eff is sometimes marginally under Screwy's? ;) :icon_cheers:
Edit ---- TTBOMK Screwy still fly-sparges?
 
Ive been doing a bit of a hybrid runoff on the last few batches... Right or wrong I dunno... I get to Mashout and take my first runnings, batch sparge, turm the bed over a bit, get it out of the corners (esky MT) and recirc for another 10 mins or until clear and or lack of patience steps in ;) and then fly from there to final volume.. I think a part of it is that my return/sparge arm does not allow for a variable size grist... and Im being anal about getting exactly what I want from the runnings too :)

Ive been tooling about with various designs of sparge arms and christ Ive gone through some copper... but I do enjoy the tinkering days too... :ph34r:

Yob
 
Not saying this is the be-all-end-all of mashing but doughing in @ 3.00Kg\L + a double batch sparge draining @ 1L\min might improve your eff. Worth a try?
Each to his own, etc,etc.
 
might sound a bit whacky but Ive tried both full fly and double batch... Didnt like double batch, too time consuming, full fly, well my equipment doesnt stand up either (return/sparge arm) so I settled on the hybrid above...

I built this ghetto *******, and Im just about getting there with the numbers but it's a matter of tweaking the system to suit now.. and I do think Im almost there.. (are we ever?)

Last run I was getting first runnings into the 1090's and was actually pretty stoked, mind you Ive been getting into water adjustments too...

phaaark me, ya gotta be a Jack of all Trades for this game, electrician, plumber, boiler maker, builder, scientist.... explorer... etc. etc..

:super: wouldnt be dead for quids!

:icon_cheers:

ed: schperlingh
 
Watch mash times, there is a sweet spot with all systems, lengthen out the sacch rest time by 15 min, if you note a gain in eff lengthen again by another 15 min, repeat until there is no further increase in eff. Be sure your recirculating wort is at temp before starting the mash timer. Recirculating slowly reduces channeling and allows for a more open grainbed. As you will now not have high combined temps you should notice a marked improvement in attenuation.
Rather than experimenting with mash-times (going up/down in 15 min increments) wouldn't an iodine/starch test indicate when conversion is complete and the mash had been held long enough?
 
Rather than experimenting with mash-times (going up/down in 15 min increments) wouldn't an iodine/starch test indicate when conversion is complete and the mash had been held long enough?


Tried it??

Iodine test will show complete conversion after 20 min.

No more......................getting grumpy.
 
FWIW I have been really happy with doughing in very thick at 55 (aiming below gelat, though high enough to quickly get to sacch temps), I get it all stirred, thin it out to desired mash thickness, get it recirculating happily and set my first sacch temp.
 
theres somethin us noobs just aint got yet innit? :blink:

Personally id rather not rely on an iodine test but the results I'm getting into the cube (and glass) as a guide.. phaark me, I need another process like a hole in the head ;)

Still, I appreciate all the help thus far.. from all you u''k'nutz

pumps.. Its a different way of thinkin/tinkerin innit! :icon_drunk:

:icon_cheers:
 
Thanks alot guys, I just gotta wait now until I brew again to see how I go. I think the cause of the problem would have been due to either channeling or more likely to pumping the wort tun too fast after mash and sparge. I let it go full speed so would have been about 7L in 2min. I'll be aiming for around 0.5L/min as suggested by Screwy by plugging the hose into my kettle ball valve and throttling it down from there.

gravity draining at .5L/min to the kettle

Need to drink more so I can brew more haha :beer: Cheers fellas
 
TL:DR Anyone throttling a brown pump return?

Well I did another batch yesterday and it was a pain in the ass.

I think the problem stemmed from the grain bed compacting (%25 Rye) and that lead to a really slow recirc, and eventually taking in air due to the amount of sucktion in the low pressure side of the pump. The bed didn't reach mash out temp after 30min of the hex being at 880C so ended up having to drain first runnings really slowly then mixing it all up and flushing the lines to do mash out. However the grain bed compacted again and so never really rose to Mash out temp for the sparge.

I'm still planning on getting some line insulation and possibly a ball valve on my MT for the wort return to throttle the pump.
 
I do throttle mine but by the voltage.. I got one of those adjustable power packs from jaycar.. currently running my 24V one at 18V with no problems at all... biggest grist Ive done too, I had my concerns but seems to be flying.

1.JPG

:icon_cheers:
 
I'm just using the 12V ones, so I'm not really sure what compacted my grain bed. Possibly the rye.
I didn't really have a good look at the grain bed of the first batch I did, but this one was felt very stiff.

Are you draining that MT with gravity or pump yob?

Tossing up between a ball valve or power pack to control the flow, or weather its worth doing at all. Probably easier to get a power pack, but more useful to use a ball valve and adjust at the MT manually.

I could also use a dimmer switch in my control box.
 
Rye shouldn't't have that much impact on grain bed, it impacts viscosity of wort more. The compacting the bed is more likely the flow speed and temp loss somewhere. Some rice hills would assist as would maybe pulling back flow speed. Ball valve works fine at the exit of march pump.
 
View attachment 56063
(inlet at the top and outlet at the bottom)

At the end of the boil, can anyone see a reason why it couldnt also be used as a chiller? all I would have to do is add some ice to the pot when Im ready to drain off to the fermenter? Hook it up to the kettle and outlet to the FV

I generally run off quite slow and the thought is that surely it would drop a significant amount of temp with a slow run through the coil.


Your problem will be with the volume of water in the HEX compared to the volume of wort. If you had equal volumes, and 100% perfect exchange, you'd end up with water and wort at the mid point between the temperature of the two.

So if you had 0deg water, and 90deg wort (assuming some natural cooling during the whirlpool), you'd only get down to 45deg. And that's assuming 100% efficency, which you won't get. And assuming equal volumes, but I assume your HEX pot is smaller than your boiler?

I ran a little experiment on the weekend to prove/disprove the theory in this..

I boiled up 25lt of water in the Keggle and put a bag of ice in the HEX unit (now fully modified) and started the run off very slowly to a cube.. the first thing that became apparent was that I needed ice water, not just ice. The water was coming out quite cool which I was well pleased with. Where it fell over was that I was about half way through when all the ice had melted.

So 'would it work' Yes... is it practicle with the equipment I have and the cost per chill... No.. ;)

was fun to do anyway and Ive learned something... and I needed to clean the Keggle anyway.

:icon_cheers:
 
well herms and herms controller is finally done. might have friday off to buy a few extra parts to plumb

heres the plumming diagram using 2 pumps (little brown and march). I figure utilising the little brown for recirc is a good isdea because of the reduced flow rate, then utlising the march for big volume transfers (like filling MLT, moving to kettle, sparging.

ive searched the thread to see if there was a definitive opinion about whether the heat exchanger should be placed before or after the pump and there seemed to be a 50/50 split. so i went with HX after pump to make pump priming easier.

View attachment CM2_HERMS_plumming_diag.pdf
 
well herms and herms controller is finally done. might have friday off to buy a few extra parts to plumb

heres the plumming diagram using 2 pumps (little brown and march). I figure utilising the little brown for recirc is a good isdea because of the reduced flow rate, then utlising the march for big volume transfers (like filling MLT, moving to kettle, sparging.

ive searched the thread to see if there was a definitive opinion about whether the heat exchanger should be placed before or after the pump and there seemed to be a 50/50 split. so i went with HX after pump to make pump priming easier.

View attachment 56739
having just researched the cost of 3 way ball vales (~$98 each), i wont be going with the above design. will just use 1 pump and manually change hoses for the time being. so will next next brew day how the HX and controller go.
 
having just researched the cost of 3 way ball vales (~$98 each), i wont be going with the above design. will just use 1 pump and manually change hoses for the time being. so will next next brew day how the HX and controller go.

If your happy to change over 1 hose per brew (or even no hose change if you don't underlet), you can plumb it up using just 1 pump and 4 normal valves.

QldKev
 
... or use the brown pump to fly-sparge/circulate the water in the HLT ... etc.
 
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