Dedicated Herms Guide, Problems And Solution Thread

[raven19]

yeah i will try it with the HLT before i drill holes in the kettle. I might add another 2200 element to the kettle...

MateO - have you considered a 2400W immersion element as part of your brewery. They are very handy, can be used to help boost your HLT temp, kettle temp (getting it up to the boil quicker), etc.

Out of interest for my typical pre boil volume of 31L (for a 22L batch), I use a 3600W and a 2400W element to get things up to the boil, then turn back to just the 3600W to keep a rollling boil.

My kettle is not insulated so adding some insulation would help. Hope this gives you an idea on electric power requirements on the kettle side of things.

(I also have a 100L kettle with 2 x 2400W elements - yes it takes a while to get 80+ L of wort up to the boil, but it does get there eventually!)

 

[mateostojic]

MateO - have you considered a 2400W immersion element as part of your brewery. They are very handy, can be used to help boost your HLT temp, kettle temp (getting it up to the boil quicker), etc.

Yeah its funny you should say that because last night i was thinking about possible solutions to my problem and the immersion chiller idea seemed like the best option. Just the fact that it can be used on both the kettle and HLT is a big advantage.

My only concern now is: would 2200W+2400W be too much for a single batch boil. I suppose the only effect would be that i would just have to compensate for a higher evaporation rate, right?

Mate

 

[raven19]

Once it gets up to the boil, turn one of them off. Easy as! (at least thats what I do :icon_cheers: )

 

[mateostojic]

Once it gets up to the boil, turn one of them off. Easy as! (at least thats what I do :icon_cheers: )

Take it that you turn the 2400W off and use the 3600W to keep the boil rolling.

Hmm...i just realised that i referred to the immersion heating element as immersion chiller in my previous post...and i wasnt even drinking. <_<

Cheers for the advice raven.
:icon_cheers:

 

[DWC]

What has everyone used to bend your HERMS HEX coil?
I scored a 10m roll of air-con 1/2" annealed copper from a mate the other day,
but, It's fairly stiff to form into a tight (130mm diam) coil to fit into my 8L HEX pot.
I think the rolls from the Big Green Shed etc. are softer copper.
I've tried to wrap it around an esky type drink bottle, and only got about 200mm in
before I put a 90deg bend in it :unsure:
I need inspiration as I was going to make the HEX while I brew tomorrow.
Cheers

Dave

 

[Maheel]

What has everyone used to bend your HERMS HEX coil?
I scored a 10m roll of air-con 1/2" annealed copper from a mate the other day,
but, It's fairly stiff to form into a tight (130mm diam) coil to fit into my 8L HEX pot.
I think the rolls from the Big Green Shed etc. are softer copper.
I've tried to wrap it around an esky type drink bottle, and only got about 200mm in
before I put a 90deg bend in it :unsure:
I need inspiration as I was going to make the HEX while I brew tomorrow.
Cheers

Dave

you could fill it with salt or fine sugar and then bend it, then soak the fine salt / sugar out (can take a while)

i have done some coils like that in 1/4 and 3/8

but you have to make sure they are "full" of salt by tapping them then filling then tapping to they are really full

some people reckon you can fill with water and freeze the bend it, then defrost (but you need to work fast)

you could also re-aneal it by heating it to cherry red with lpg / oxy / fire / ? to make it as soft as possible

 

[mxd]

some people reckon you can fill with water and freeze the bend it, then defrost (but you need to work fast)

I think it's soapy water as the frozen soapy water won't shatter but crumble ?

 

[raven19]

Take it that you turn the 2400W off and use the 3600W to keep the boil rolling.

Hmm...i just realised that i referred to the immersion heating element as immersion chiller in my previous post...and i wasnt even drinking. <_<

Cheers for the advice raven.
:icon_cheers:

No worries, I tend to stick with the 3600W typically.

 

[shawnheiderich]

Hi all just back into brewing after a bit of a hiatus and need some advice on the HERMS I am trying to get off the ground.

My HX is going to be a 20l Birko urn with copper pipe inside, I have a 18m roll. I plan to fill the urn to about the 18l mark will 9m be enough pipe? The more pipe I assume the slower the flow rate due to pressure in the system. With an exposed element do I need to place a barrier between the pipe and the element?

HX controller is the part I have been thinking of the most, I have read in this thread that a tempmate will do the job does anyone use one? If not what would be the possible drawbacks of using one.

Any thoughts or assistance given would be appreciated.

Thanks

Shawn

 

[cdbrown]

9m of pipe will be fine, most people have about that much. I just use a kettle element in my pot which is exposed - there's no need for a barrier if you keep the coil from touching the element. 18L is a fairly large volume of water so while it will hold the heat it also takes longer to heat up. The tempmate can do the job, but most people go for a PID controller for more responsive and accurate control. A PID is constantly cycling itself on and off to maintain the temp, or to reach a target temp over a specified time. The tempmate will be turning on and off depending on the set points.

 

[shawnheiderich]

Thanks that is what I thought sounded right for the pipe. I guess the tempmate will need to have the set points just right to minimise cycling. I think the larger HX will help with this, thermal mass ect. I know that a pid ssr heat sink would be the ideal solution. But I have just finished reading the post asking which wire goes where to wire a plug to a march pump! So that is well out of my electrical league... I bought a RCD extension cord today and plan to get all wiring checked prior to me plugging it in.

Thanks

Shawn

 

[NickB]

Tempmate is fine for the HEx, use one on my system. Make sure you set it to .5 differential, and it will cycle fairly frequently, but it works a treat. Have about 5m of copper in my 14L pot, 1600W element from an urn.

Cheers

 

[shawnheiderich]

Thanks Nick B, just what I wanted to hear!

Shawn

 

[NickB]

No worries mate, if you want to see a setup in action at any stage give me a yell and I can have a brew day here at my place in Murarrie if you're keen.

Cheers

 

[kymba]

I'm currently scrounging bits and bobs for a herms unit. For the element I went to crazy clarks and got a $9 jug.

I ripped the element out and the layout of the 3 pins reminded me of the power cord used for a computer...lo-and-behold it fits like a thumb up a bum

how do i test that its going to work, and that i'm not going to blow shit up?

 

[dmac80]

I'm currently scrounging bits and bobs for a herms unit. For the element I went to crazy clarks and got a $9 jug.

I ripped the element out and the layout of the 3 pins reminded me of the power cord used for a computer...lo-and-behold it fits like a thumb up a bum

how do i test that its going to work, and that i'm not going to blow shit up?

View attachment 47181

View attachment 47182

Check the resistance between the L and N pins on the element, then plug the cord in and check the resistance between the two angled pins (A and N), with the cord attached it should be less than about 2 ohms greater than the resistance of the element alone.

Cheers

Edit: I checked mine and the element was 28 ohm, cord from plug to pin was 1 ohm, so 28 + 1 + 1 equals around 30 ohms. I'd make sure your pot is earthed and be very careful as that plug would stick out a fair way and be vulnerable to damage if knocked. Maybe put a junction box over the connections for protection.

 

[dent]

The lower right hand screw attaches the earth from the IEC plug to the element housing - If you wanted you could put an eyelet crimp terminal under the screw so you can wire it to a lug on the metal of your container. Be careful of those fine wires going to the neon lamp, they have full 240 on them. I'd be inclined to put a enclosure over the lot if you plan to attach it to anything permanently.

 

[kymba]

thanks dmac, will do that tonight

i'll be putting the element through the centre of the pot and gunna get an earth point spot welded to it. I'll use another upturned pot as a stand and to protect the electricals. will be using cable glands to make sure nothing can be knocked / yoinked out

and thanks dent...might look at removing the little light all together - there will be plenty of lights and numbers on the control box to keep me entertained anyway

Check the resistance between the L and N pins on the element, then plug the cord in and check the resistance between the two angled pins (A and N), with the cord attached it should be less than about 2 ohms greater than the resistance of the element alone.

Cheers

Edit: I checked mine and the element was 28 ohm, cord from plug to pin was 1 ohm, so 28 + 1 + 1 equals around 30 ohms. I'd make sure your pot is earthed and be very careful as that plug would stick out a fair way and be vulnerable to damage if knocked. Maybe put a junction box over the connections for protection.

 

[NDH]

Just regarding the eherms discussion, I had intended on using contactors with my PID outputs. The fact that they are probably only rated for 1000 coil operations had crossed my mind but I have a pretty steady supply to replace them. Where can I find a price for the SSR's? I had assumed they are quite expensive and written off the option but if they are a reasonable price I'd rather use them.

Also looking at using the ramp/soak PID's so I can program the alarm outputs to operate my pump. I've got a schematic at home that I can post if anyone is interested or willing to offer advice.

 

[hsb]

I didn't understand the rest of your post :huh: but SSRs are cheap:
http://shop.ebay.com.au/?_from=R40&_tr...-All-Categories

Apologies if I've misundersood..