Crown Urn

[Bribie G]

Strange - what malt and crush? Was it crushed at the shop or did you do it?

 

[Mikedub]

I crushed only 300g chocolate,
MOtter, RB, crystal all shop milled, +oats
tasting good though,

 

[Bribie G]

Still a puzzle, but I'd mill my own (assuming you have a full size mill) - If the current batch tastes ok and you want to up the ABV% I'd probably slide in 500 of dex, which is pretty neutral, rather than LDME which will possibly give a twang.

 

[Mikedub]

thanks, good advice

 

[hazard]

I got a new 40L crown urn, concealed element, yesterday, gee it looks so nice and shiny and pretty, can't wait to use it.

But a quick question about no-chill. I have previously done a no-chill in my old kettle, sometimes chucked it in the bath tub, once or twice just left it sitting on the stove (takes at least 24 hours to cool down that way). I can't be bothered using a cube, and I want to pitch as soon as i can after boiling wort, i assume that there is no reason I can't continue to no chill right there in the urn. And pitch next day - I reckon if I put a fermenter under the tap and opened it up, there should be enough splashing going on to aerate the wort during the trasnfer. Anybody else use this approach? Any reason not to?

Thanks, Hazard

 

[Amber Fluid]

I know some people have successfully wrapped their urn up in glad wrap until the next day. Personally I wouldn't but others have got away with it. All this will do imo is provide a higher risk of a failure. Nevertheless, you could do as you say provided you wrap the urn up and understand you will be incorporating a bigger risk factor.

Chances are you will get away with it but as I indicated, it just depends how willing you are to take a bigger risk.

 

[squirt in the turns]

I know some people have successfully wrapped their urn up in glad wrap until the next day. Personally I wouldn't but others have got away with it. All this will do imo is provide a higher risk of a failure. Nevertheless, you could do as you say provided you wrap the urn up and understand you will be incorporating a bigger risk factor.

Chances are you will get away with it but as I indicated, it just depends how willing you are to take a bigger risk.

I've never done this, but I think it has been a pretty popular practice among homebrewers at various points in history. The addition of the HDPE cube is a fairly recent recent innovation, no/slow chill in general is a pretty old school method.

I think NickJD does this with some of his stove top BIABs.

One problem is that while a cube will contract quite happily as the contents cool, an urn will be inclined to draw in atmosphere, which could be bad, depending on what's floating around in the air at your place. If you really seal it up well with glad wrap, you could face other problems, like this: http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic...f=2&t=10869

In that instance, there was a lot of headspace. Obviously gas contracts a lot more than liquid when it cools. With a larger volume in the kettle, you'd probably be ok. Maybe.

That said, how much do a cube and a length of silicone hose cost? For the peace of mind and the flexibility it offers, I'd say it's the best option.

 

[bignath]

I got a new 40L crown urn, concealed element, yesterday, gee it looks so nice and shiny and pretty, can't wait to use it.

But a quick question about no-chill. I have previously done a no-chill in my old kettle, sometimes chucked it in the bath tub, once or twice just left it sitting on the stove (takes at least 24 hours to cool down that way). I can't be bothered using a cube, and I want to pitch as soon as i can after boiling wort, i assume that there is no reason I can't continue to no chill right there in the urn. And pitch next day - I reckon if I put a fermenter under the tap and opened it up, there should be enough splashing going on to aerate the wort during the trasnfer. Anybody else use this approach? Any reason not to?

Thanks, Hazard

If you've already done it in your old kettle, what difference do you think it will make if your kettle is now an urn?

EDIT:
Besides, I'd rather clean my kettle as soon as possible rather than let the scum ring dry and harden overnight.

No chill works cause it's simple. I don't see why everyone wants to make it harder all the time.

 

[Truman42]

Ive done no chill before in my urn. After whirlpool I covered the top with glad wrap and poked a hole in the middle which I covered with some cotton balls. Because they are sterile they will filter the air getting sucked into the urn as the wort cools.
Then once cooled just drained slowly into my fermenter though a sterile strainer to make the wort splash about.

 

[Amber Fluid]

I've never done this, but I think it has been a pretty popular practice among homebrewers at various points in history. The addition of the HDPE cube is a fairly recent recent innovation, no/slow chill in general is a pretty old school method.

I think NickJD does this with some of his stove top BIABs.

One problem is that while a cube will contract quite happily as the contents cool, an urn will be inclined to draw in atmosphere, which could be bad, depending on what's floating around in the air at your place. If you really seal it up well with glad wrap, you could face other problems, like this: http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic...f=2&t=10869

In that instance, there was a lot of headspace. Obviously gas contracts a lot more than liquid when it cools. With a larger volume in the kettle, you'd probably be ok. Maybe.

That said, how much do a cube and a length of silicone hose cost? For the peace of mind and the flexibility it offers, I'd say it's the best option.

Wow... that urn in the link looks like it's been hit by a truck!!... nevertheless, my comment stands....

Just a short list of a few people who do it or don't advise strongly against it from here:
#1
#2
#3 even though not an urn
#4
#5 although I believe doesn't do it but advised it should be fine

 

[hazard]

I've never done this, but I think it has been a pretty popular practice among homebrewers at various points in history. The addition of the HDPE cube is a fairly recent recent innovation, no/slow chill in general is a pretty old school method.

I think NickJD does this with some of his stove top BIABs.

One problem is that while a cube will contract quite happily as the contents cool, an urn will be inclined to draw in atmosphere, which could be bad, depending on what's floating around in the air at your place. If you really seal it up well with glad wrap, you could face other problems, like this: http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic...f=2&t=10869

In that instance, there was a lot of headspace. Obviously gas contracts a lot more than liquid when it cools. With a larger volume in the kettle, you'd probably be ok. Maybe.

That said, how much do a cube and a length of silicone hose cost? For the peace of mind and the flexibility it offers, I'd say it's the best option.

Wow thanks for the link. I'm gonna buy some home brand cling wrap, i didn't realise Glad wrap was so strong!

 

[mikec]

If you really seal it up well with glad wrap, you could face other problems, like this: http://homebrewandbeer.com/forum/viewtopic...f=2&t=10869

No way stainless steel collapses before the glad wrap stretches and/or breaks. I call bullshit on that thread.

 

[twizt1d]

glad wrap wouldnt have had much chance to stretch, sounds like it just acted as a gasket when the lid was put on
the final layer over the top would have been the nail in the coffin, the vent holes are tiny and glad wrap would have handled the vacuum no problem

 

[Bribie G]

A problem you could face is the urn tap and the sight tube. both of them can get organic matter lodged in them and neither area gets a full temperature boil. If you promptly and thoroughly clean the urn every time you would no doubt get away with NC in urn most of the time. Myself, of the 4 brews I have tipped in my career 1 was from using supermarket ice in a partial, 1 from NC in a Birko urn and 2 from cube infections.

Now you could surmise from those results that NC in urn is thus safer than cubes. However if you take into account the 200 or so cubed brews and my solitary NC in urn experiment the stats come out otherwise.

I must say that the Crown tap has a much smoother internal structure than the Birko with fewer places for gunk to accumulate (such as the rotten hop remnant in the Birko that time).

As it is a newie why not consider fitting a 3 piece ball valve that you can take apart? Also remember to give the sight tube a rinse through with PBW often. I reckon you should be good.

 

[Spork]

I've been "no chilling" in my urn (Crown, concealed element) for a while now, and (touch wood) no problems.
I chuck a clean towel over the lid, lets air in, but I guess acts as a kind of filter to keep bugs out.

 

[Muscovy_333]

No offence but I highly doubt a towel or any other contraption would actually filter out bacteria unless they are very fine pores and designed to do such a thing.
Not to say you could not practise as suggested at all, but I feel obliged to address the misconception that these devices are 'filtering' bacteria out.
2c

 

[squirt in the turns]

Wow... that urn in the link looks like it's been hit by a truck!!... nevertheless, my comment stands....

I wasn't disputing your point, AF, just offering some advice about a potential pitfall. I don't know of anyone else who's managed to achieve what I did with that urn. Still, I thought I'd offer up some evidence of what can happen when atmospheric pressure goes up against a lot of contracting vapour in a sealed headspace. With 20 L or so of liquid obviously the chances of that happening are a lot smaller.

Considering the cost of a cube, though, I'd encourage hazard to just do it "properly", if no-chill is a permanent long term solution. Hell, $50 gets you a FWK in a perfectly good reusable cube. It'd be tricky making 20 L of decent AG beer and buying a cube for less.

Wow thanks for the link. I'm gonna buy some home brand cling wrap, i didn't realise Glad wrap was so strong!

It was "VitaFresh" brand, ultra-wide stuff that I got from a specialist catering outlet. It was the only place I could find cling wrap wide enough to comfortably seal a fermenter (with some "extra" for those really vigorous ferments).

No way stainless steel collapses before the glad wrap stretches and/or breaks. I call bullshit on that thread.

Sorry, mikec, but it happened (and it pissed me off!)

Here's the urn as it is now, after I did my best to whack it back into shape.. You can see that it's still pretty misshapen, but it works.

glad wrap wouldnt have had much chance to stretch, sounds like it just acted as a gasket when the lid was put on
the final layer over the top would have been the nail in the coffin, the vent holes are tiny and glad wrap would have handled the vacuum no problem

Yep, I reckon that's what happened. The lid actually "popped" inward too.