Chinese Hops? What Next

[HoppingMad]

To quote Sammus on post #16, Yet another RACIST f*wit here on this forum.

And for those other racists who have bagged Chinese hops purely because they're Chinese or without direct evidence of its quality, I wonder if youve put your name down for this bulk buy???????????????

Um, dre dude. I don't see your name down on the list to buy these glorious hops that you so vigorously defend. A little odd that. <_<

Maybe you should get some, brew a decent beer with it if you believe that's possible and impress some fellow brewers with the stuff.

Or you could continue to attack Dom for another 10 posts, I don't care. It's up to you.

Personally I'd rather be makin' brews, not makin' war.

Hopper.

 

[domonsura]

If say your current suppliers who are doing a ban up job (whoever these suppliers are) began supplying Chinese hops and encouraged you to purchase and stock Marco Polo or any other Chinese grown hops, whether they be Chinese grown Cascade, Saaz, Goldings, or Hallertau at the current "bulk-buy" prices, and assured you that they are of equal or better quality than the us and euro hops by means of quantitative and qualitative analyses ...........would you then stock Chinese hops?

Probably not. There's only so much room in the fridge, and the margin on something so cheap would in all fairness to the customer probably not even make it worth the cost & time involved with bagging it without making the margin seem obscene to me. Re-packing & storing temperature/oxygen/light sensitive product has certain costs, that's the reality, and that sometimes no favours are being done to a product by it's being the cheapest on the market. From ANY country. As it is we stock a few varieties of hops in both the US & NZ varieties, and then some Euro/NZ comparisons as well. My experience says that the more choice there is, the less quick overall the product moves, and that length of time has to be limited. Can also only afford to have so many thousand dollars sitting in the coolroom/freezer. That's the reality. Where do people get this idea that there's an unlimited supply of funds with which to buy everything there is to have?
I don't need to have the same variety grown in every country. As I have said, I believe there is benefit to supporting more local markets & suppliers, and exerting consumer pressure via those suppliers. This buy has the potential to burn the market. 5kg of hops is a big bundle in anyone's books, and my money is on quite a proportion of this buy hanging around in freezers for quite some time. Oh well. At least I'm good for hops.

 

[dj1984]

Oh well. At least I'm good for hops.

Make sure your good for B Saaz :wub:

 

[townsville]

OK I love the debate, BUT PLEASE DO BURST A PHOO_PHOO VALVE OVER IT

We can all be friends at the end of the day. Opinions from the likes of Domonsura are highly valued (also quite arguable too). It would be a sad sad world if we all agreed with each other all the time - and extremely boring too. I felt like giving detailed answers to much said (and you bet I could), but think better of it, for the sake of The Great Chinese Hop Buy, wont. I will say I did the last bulk buy of hops in 2007, and the Australian Brew World didn't collapse over that.

BUT in fairness, I will try to condense Domonsura posts to something concise and give the alternate viewpoint on the radio show. That is only fair.

Back to the hop order.. Currently still waiting on another freight forwarder to give me a quote. Once that is done, the order is on.


People in Brisbane willing to help, packaging and drinkies - Bethania

zzzzzzz - private
Mattese
BribieG - I work Afternoon shifts weekends but free most weekdays ,and able to put in about 3 hours labour on a weekend morning.
Davewaldo
Marlow_coats
TidalPete
Wrenny
Bradsbrew
Stillscottish - depends on my shift but work mornings or arvos, sometimes days off midweek. Kluger available for transport if required.
Winkle - car is useless though

Will also need some-one to pick up the hops, must have a trayback as its 200 kg's plus. EagleFarm pickup , eventual delivery for distribution Bethania. Like a couple of people in case any fall thru

Graham Sanders
craftbreweratbeagle.comdot au
Skype "craftbrewer"

 

[townsville]

Chinese hops = $10/kg
Others = $80-130/kg

Just curious as to who is it thats making all the money on that markup?

LHBSs ?
Importers ?
Farmers ?

I would guess the importers.

Nope!!!!!

I have done Bulk Buy of Hops for many years. 2006, and 2007 the last Aussie ones. The cost I was getting it at the farm gate in Tasmania was similar to the Chinese hops, so its not the farmers. Certainly not the Brew shop, they are at the end of the chain, and considered very small players not even worth worrying about.

Its the middle men, no different to supermarkets etc.

And why was I forced to go to China. Initially the farm I was accessing was sold to overseas interests. I then went to other farmers. While the farmers were happy to sell to me, I was stopped access to those individual farms by the "middle-men" who didn't want their setup rocked.

Craftbrewer

 

[marlow_coates]

People in Brisbane willing to help, packaging and drinkies - Bethania

zzzzzzz - private
Mattese
BribieG - I work Afternoon shifts weekends but free most weekdays ,and able to put in about 3 hours labour on a weekend morning.
Davewaldo
Marlow_coates (weekdays after Nov 15th, or donating a few beers for those doing it if before)
TidalPete
Wrenny
Bradsbrew
Stillscottish - depends on my shift but work mornings or arvos, sometimes days off midweek. Kluger available for transport if required.
Winkle - car is useless though


Just adding in my ability to help (limited sorry, depends on dates)

 

[Pennywise]

2nd best thread ever :lol:

 

[Fents]

how the hell do people label someone rascist out of all this. pull ya heads in.

 

[TidalPete]

People in Brisbane willing to help, packaging and drinkies - Bethania

zzzzzzz - private
Mattese
BribieG - I work Afternoon shifts weekends but free most weekdays ,and able to put in about 3 hours labour on a weekend morning.
Davewaldo
Marlow_coates (weekdays after Nov 15th, or donating a few beers for those doing it if before)
TidalPete --- Any day but need pickup from Bethania Railway Station?
Bradsbrew
Stillscottish - depends on my shift but work mornings or arvos, sometimes days off midweek. Kluger available for transport if required.
Winkle - car is useless though


Just added a couple of details to my moniker.

TP

 

[samhighley]

AHB seems to have attracted the attention of the Chinese.

 

[townsville]

how the hell do people label someone rascist out of all this. pull ya heads in.

Ok I cant help myself, arogant ******* I am.

I tell you - people should learn

"What is racist statement, and what is a racial statement" so many people get them confused. THEY ARE NOT INTERCHANGABLE.

Remember this too - context is important in what I will say

A racial statement is simply a statement identifying a race. In Australian culture its used in humour, as a form of identification, even a compliment. Pommy *******, Red Indian, White Supremist, Curry Muncher, Nip, Black-Fella etc etc etc are racial statements. They can be used in anger to insult too, and to goat one into a fight, if they dont understand the contect they are used. For hundreds of years in Australia this has been the norm.

A racist statement is a believe that your race is superior to others thru some racial, cultural or genetic factor. The Arian Race of Nazi Germany, the KKK of the USA are examples. A racist statement is "negro's are naturally better runners than white people, its a fact".

Now as strange as it sounds we are all racists - especially farmers and breeders. We believe certain breeds of animal and plants are better than others in certain sets of conditions. But its strange we dont carry that on o humans, BUT thats the multicultural world we live in.

NOW THE CONTEXT

General it revolves arround the statements being made "I wont buy, stock, use Chinese hops as they are crap".

If you use that as solely a statement that you know Chinese hops are inferior, you know their technology and experience in growing hops is poor. - THEN THIS IS A RACIAL STATEMENT.

But if you believe the Chinese can never grow decent hops, because they wont ever learn, or their culture wont let them, and you have never seen the hops, then its definitely RACIST.


So What do I believe what has been said by many. Flame suite on - while most of the statements are indeed racial in nature, There is a small undercurrent that they are also racist. Many are making wildly un-informed statements soley on these being Chinese Hops, nothing more.

As stated, many have said I am a arogant ******* -Enough said

Craftbrewer

 

[lastdrinks]

I think everybody is missing the key point there, which is pissing me off!!!! And there are a few of us that have been stung badly by it but no seems to care. Everybody is just sitting back getting in flame wars while a few of us are being torn to pieces. It's not about racism, greedy (or not ) HBS or arrogant (or not) internet radio jockies!!

It's it's it's about working family guys and girls who missed out on getting on the original bulk buy list!!!!!! whine all you bloody want but think about us!! I was told the list is full only to see another dozen people jump on. What's the world come too!?!

I cant find the emoticon for tears and hair pulling out. So hurry up and help out the forgotten few.

 

[Fents]

 

[Maple]

snip.. Many are making wildly un-informed statements soley on these being Chinese Hops, nothing more.

Are they really Chinese hops? or are they merely hops which are sourced from China (which happen to have been grown there as well). Is it appropriate to nominate a race to an organism based on its origin, which leads to the question where did hops originate from?

I guess what I wonder is does every organic compound have a race associated to it based on where it was sourced from? or is race purely a label to which we apply to people of the same circumstance?

half piss-take half serious. Can we just move on already?

 

[Steve]

which leads to the question where did hops originate from?

didnt they come from that crappy little island where all the bloody whinging poms come from?

 

[Mattese]

I just want to make beer!! :angry:

 

[altone]

I agree with you Pumpy, completely. Good on you for having the nads to call a spade a spade, I'll share a beer with you any day mate. I have decided that if it's good enough for Graham & his friend to get on his little internet radio show and call everyone who disagrees with this an 'idiot' and a 'turkey' and to tell us all to 'get a life' then it's about time someone spoke up from the HBS sector.

I know you've been around for a while Graham, but short sighted is what I believe you are encouraging everyone else to be with no regard for consequences down the line.

The fact is that if there are limited funds in circulation due to financial pressures on families and businesses (which there is), your bulk buy represents even more business off to China completely bypassing everyone who really needs the trade, therefore less business (money) kept within Australia which is really responsible at the moment.
Quite incredible how someone with your reputation could condone and encourage such stuff if you truly have the interests of all home brewers at heart as you claim. Your questions regarding 'why aren't the local hbs importing these hops' are ludicrous, as you should well know the answers but seem to want to skirt past them, in doing so implying that the local hbs is 'ripping it's customers off - which is a load of cobblers. We are passing on the costs of being in business, which people seem to overlook sometimes.
1. Your implication that your average LHBS has the money to do what you suggest to begin with is ludicrous.
2. Your local hbs is not going to take the financial risk with unknown quality product.
3. Your local hbs is not going to risk it's reputation with unknown quality product.
4. Your local hbs is not likely to have the room to properly store the quantity of hops required to make this all worth it given the importers permit, shipping agent fees etc.

<edited>

Ok, as i'm going to post a reply - let it be known, i'm on the list to buy some chinese hops!

domonsura, good on you for putting your point of view so eloquently with enough details that everyone should be able to understand.

I agree 100% it's a little naive to expect a LHBS to take the risk of importing these "unknown" hops.
Even if the importation went without hitch, as you say ,the LHBS may have to dump the whole lot anyway if the quality is no good and they care about their reputation (which after all is what keeps decent brewshops afloat)

In fact, if this bulk buy goes bad or the hops are crappy (no pun intended) it may have done the LHBS a favour as nobody would want to buy those cheap imports in the future.

As for the limited market and the reduction of hop sales, I'm sure you are right on that too overall.

Where I disagree is that this will necessarily affect the overall LHBS market (and hence also the australian economy) negatively.

By putting my name down for 4Kg of imported hops I've already comitted, in principal, to increase my brewing by a factor of 4 and i'm sure others will be increasing their production too.

For every extra brew using these hops, I'll need to buy grain, aroma hops (I like to use plugs or flowers) possibly some yeast and all the other bits and bobs that go along with the process.

I'll be spending more money with Craftbrewer and Beerbelly than i have in the past.

Just trying to balance the general "doom and gloom" posts with a little personal reality.

How many folks will be buying more like me - no idea, but from the amount of enthusiastic posters
here I'm sure i'm not alone.

 

[Jez]

What's the world come too!?! ...... So hurry up and help out the forgotten few....

I feel your pain my brother

 

[townsville]

I think everybody is missing the key point there, which is pissing me off!!!! It's it's it's about working family guys and girls who missed out on getting on the original bulk buy list!!!!!! whine all you bloody want but think about us!!So hurry up and help out the forgotten few.

Settle petal

If you read a little deeper into the posts, the order will go over 200kg IF WE GET HELPERS IN BRISBANE WILLING TO PACK.

The list so far
People in Brisbane willing to help, packaging and drinkies - Bethania

zzzzzzz - private
Mattese
BribieG - I work Afternoon shifts weekends but free most weekdays ,and able to put in about 3 hours labour on a weekend morning.
Davewaldo
Marlow_coates (weekdays after Nov 15th, or donating a few beers for those doing it if before)
TidalPete --- Any day but need pickup from Bethania Railway Station?
Wrenny
Bradsbrew
Stillscottish - depends on my shift but work mornings or arvos, sometimes days off midweek. Kluger available for transport if required.
Winkle - car is useless though

A few more and I can confidently say (are we listening), the order will go well over 200kg, so you will get your chance to order. That goes for shops, micro's, ANYONE.

Put your name down when itopens again, and as long as lorder finalise 20 kg, then it will be ordered. So when I reopen, if we get orders for 35 kg of Cascade, I will order 20 kg, and thats it. If the deman is there, you will get your order.

Graham

 

[Steve]

I still have left 300-400 gms of a 2kg lump of Cluster flowers from the 2006 Bulk Buy. Why? Because I didnt want to brew every brew with Cluster. And I will not want to brew every brew for the next 3 years with saaz, even more bloody cluster and Marco polo. I have been going to the lhbs over the past three years to buy other types of hops. That reminds me anyone want 300-400gms 2006 Cluster? :lol:
Cheers
Steve