Carbonation Blues

[Moad]

If you like your beer at 12 psi but it pours too fast you can either make your line longer or decrease the diameter. This has the effect of increasing resistance therefore slowing the pour.

 

[UsernameTaken]

So after another 24 hours at 12psi beer is pouring with a perfect looking head but tastes a little under carbonated again!

Now i don't know whether to leave it, bump the gas up, or lower the gas and purge???

Cheers,
UNT

 

[mofox1]

If you like your beer at 12 psi but it pours too fast you can either make your line longer or decrease the diameter. This has the effect of increasing resistance therefore slowing the pour.

So after another 24 hours at 12psi beer is pouring with a perfect looking head but tastes a little under carbonated again!

Now i don't know whether to leave it, bump the gas up, or lower the gas and purge???

It's obvious that changing the serving pressure / purging / etc isn't providing a consistent and acceptable pour. Unless I'm mistaken, you are after a well carbonated bevvy without a shiteload of head. To get your carbonation, you need a fairly high carbonation pressure (12+?). Once carbonated, you need to serve at this pressure too, otherwise it will eventually lose carbonation while also gassing out in the line when pouring. If your line is too short, then a higher serving pressure will cause undue amount of foaming.

You either need to drop the temp down a few degrees, or do as Moad suggested and use longer lines. How long? Don't know... maybe 6m or so but you'll have to find that pressure/temperature/line length chart first to work it out. Make sure you accurately measure the fridge/beer temp too!... a few degrees does make a lot of difference.

 

[UsernameTaken]

Yes temp control could be an issue with opening the door all the time to access the picnic taps!

My fridge temp dial goes from 1 warmest to 5 coldest. I had it 3 for some time and was hitting 4c.

I must have bumped it one day to 5 and it hit -2 and the lines froze. Putting it back to 3 only now hits 5c.

I have set to just above 4 now on the dial and it is hitting 4c. I would like to go back to 5 but am scared it will freeze again?

Cheers,
UNT

 

[UsernameTaken]

Another 24 hours at 12psi and beer is now flat as ****!

This all seems way harder then it really should be.

I am missing washing bottles already!

UNT

 

[ltp]

I'm kind of in the same boat here - I've only recently moved to kegging, and my beers are great for the first week or two, and then they turn into a flat-bodied brew with too much head.

I've tried running off a (wasted) litre of beer until any bubbles empty out of the line, but it seems that on closing the tap, bubbles precipitate back of of the beer - it's not from the tap as I've held a loop of the line above the tap and watched the CO2 bubble out above and below the tap.

I have two kegs on tap (currently a brown saison and an apple cider), and when I pour my saison I almost get a Guinness-style effervescence of nitrogen bubbles falling out of the beer, only, a large frothy head remains with an undercarbonated beer. I usually carb at 10-11 PSI until the beer is ready.

At this point I see no other option than drinking the entire keg during the optimum carbonation window. Quite frankly; I just can't brew that fast

 

[UsernameTaken]

Is your fridge temp constant? I am now thinking my thermostat must be on the way out as my temp is all over the place!

UNT

 

[JDW81]

Are you sure your kegs are all sealing properly and you aren't losing gas from somewhere?

 

[Danscraftbeer]

Yeah this doesn't sound right. Some kind of turbulence in the lines or something?

I found kegging a dream come true compared to bottling. Good from the first keg. I never went back.
With a bit of over and under carbing, frozen lines etc through the first few kegs until I worked out the best technique which was the most simplistic technique. No stuffing around. It just takes a little experience like anything though.
The rewarding sweet spot turns out to be the easiest and most less stuffing around.

Persevere without complicating it if you can. My beer lines are 2m.

Question. If you pour one glass that's frothy then pour another glass straight after and its perfect then its just warm taps. That's why pub taps are chilled but I recall you saying the tap is in the fridge anyway so that cant be the problem. Just thinking out loud.
There must be something simple to get this right for you.

 

[UsernameTaken]

Stabilising the fridge temp at between 3 and 4c and waiting another 24hrs seems to have improved things for me.

I think I had too many balls in the air at once being new to kegging, trying to force carbonate and having a temp unstable fridge.

I am going to get another Digital - Dual Auto Thermostat for the keg fridge so I can be sure it stays at 3c from now on!

Cheers,
UNT

 

[klangers]

You seem to have a lot more troubles than there should be. As you hinted, this is probably because you're trying to change too many variables at once!

Stupid question - your kegs are constantly hooked up to CO2, yeah?

It's just balancing pressure and temperature with carbonation level, and then applying back pressure equal to the keg pressure. You seem to have sufficient beer line.

If you are getting foam in the glass, then it can be caused by numerous things. One that I often see is a kink in the line. Any turbulence in the beer line causes a pressure drop and in turn forces CO2 out of solution (foam). Check your lines for sudden cross sectional changes.

Stop fiddling with your keg everyday and emptying it out slightly - this won't help pin down the issue if everything is going out of whack. Look up the pressure/temperature of carbonation you need (from a solubility/beer chart - unfortunately you're gonna have to look up this ) and then simply put your kegs and fridge to this.

Wait. Let it equilibriate. Then try it again.

 

[UsernameTaken]

Thanks Klangers, once I am confident my fridge temp is stable I will do exactly as you suggest.

Cheers,
UNT

 

[Grott]

A test of carbonation would be to disconnect the gas from the keg and release all the gas in the keg. Reconnect the gas and leave for 10 to 15 minutes to re-pressurize. Pour a beer, if its flat then you have a carbonation of the keg problem to the work on. If the beer is all foamy again and there is no kink in the beer line per Klangers check then it could suggest the keg is over carbonated.

 

[UsernameTaken]

So do you guys have temp control of your keg fridge beyond it's internal thermostat?

 

[Grott]

No, as I really only have to open the fridge to change kegs the beer stays around 1 to 2 degrees. This suits as it allows it to warm up nicely in the glass to 4 degrees plus depending on what I'm drinking.

 

[Coalminer]

So do you guys have temp control of your keg fridge beyond it's internal thermostat?

Definitely.
But my kegs are in a 32L chest freezer

 

[klangers]

Yes, control my chesty to +/- 0.5 degrees - but once your kegs are cold it takes a long time for them to change temperature. Opening and closing the fridge door wont affect your kegs - but it may be affecting your beer lines and taps. If these are warm enough, they'll pull CO2 out of solution. But after the first little bit they'll cool down again.

So in essence, I don't think your fridge temperature is the cause of your worries.

My temperature controller is wired in place of the original thermostat - this is an easy way of incorporating accuracy without compromising the original compressor protection circuit (over heat, max starts etc). It also means the controller is only switching a low current, so keeps the relay life long.

 

[ltp]

Apologies for necro-bumping this thread, but yeah; my fridge temp was too high.

The really stupid thing was that after a few beers (usually when I post here and then **** with the fridge thermo) I had tried dialling the temperature down gradually, but had somehow been turning the thermometer the wrong way, resulting in higher temps and a fizzier pour.

Like I said; I'm drunk, not smart.

 

[manticle]

Smunk

 

[UsernameTaken]

Ok, just had some carbonation joy!

48 hrs at 20 psi then down to 15psi for serving with the fridge at 3c.

Day 4 and carbonation is great and everyone is happy!

Just thought I would share...

Cheers,
UNT