Caramelising First Runnings

[T.D.]

Hi all,

Recently I tried caramelising wort in a beer that was meant to be a modern replication of a post WWII ale where only the simplest and most readily available ingredients were used. I used 100% JW ale and all fuggles hops. The idea of the caramelisation was to try and get some caramel flavours and a richer colour out of the ale malt. As those who have done 100% ale brews before would agree, these beers are often not bursting with character!

So what I did was draw the first runnings into the kettle, which was around 6 litres, and then boil them down vigorously to half that volume. I then added 3L of water to the rest of the sparge water, and sparged as normal, then boiled all the wort for 60mins as I usually would do.

I can't believe how much effect the caramelisation has had! The colour is MUCH darker than 100% ale would have otherwise produced (see pic), and the flavour is rich and malty. I have done several 100% JW ale brews before and this isn't even remotely comparable. Its as if its got 5% crystal in the grist. I always think that beers that are, say, 95% ale 5% crystal seem to taste a bit out of balance, as if the sweetness sticks out too much. The caramelisation doesn't seem to get this, its very balanced. :beerbang:

Having done this brew, I am now much more convinced that Timothy Taylor Landlord may well be 100% Golden Promise that's been caramelised in the kettle. I am amazed at how much it has changed the beer.

Anyway, I thought some of you out there in brew land might be interested in these findings. I'm thinking I might try and get a 10-20L ali pot to use solely for caramelising wort. I'll definitely be doing this more often in the future.

Here is the recipe. Extremely simple. I'm wondering if I need to buy crystal malt ever again! :lol:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 17.00 L
Boil Size: 22.08 L
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 9.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 30.8 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.50 kg Joe White Traditional Ale (5.9 EBC) Grain 100.00 %
35.00 gm Fuggles [4.70 %] (60 min) Hops 25.7 IBU
35.00 gm Fuggles [4.70 %] (5 min) Hops 5.1 IBU


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 3.50 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 9.13 L of water at 74.4 C 67.8 C

 

[Stuster]

Interesting stuff, T.D. The beer certainly does look darker than I'd expect with just trad ale. What yeast did you use? And what FG did you get? Certainly sounds like something to try. Hmm, I'm wondering what styles I could give it a go in.

 

[T.D.]

G'day Stu, I used S-04. I only carbonated it today (which involved shaking!) so its not very clear. I think the FG was 1.008 from memory.

I reckon it could be a really good technique to use for an IPA. I think it suits the English Pale Ale style (extending up to IPA) beautifully!

Cheers.

 

[warrenlw63]

Heya T.D. that looks the duck's nuts. :beer:

Good to see it went to plan. Might have to have at it myself.

Stuster Brown Ale or Scottish Ales are a good starting point to try it... Or as T.D. said in an IPA. From memory the traditional English versions from days of yore obtained their colour from copper kettles etc.

Warren -

 

[Gough]

Caramelisation is a great way to add flavour and colour to the resulting beer. Sounds (and looks) like your experiment was a winner T.D. I've done this myself a few times now and always been very pleased with the results. Your call on the TT Landlord may or may not be right but I reckon the caramelised flavours and the TT Landlord yeast from Wyeast would make a GREAT combination...

Just out of interest though... I disagree regarding the British Crystal malts. Baird's 140-160 EBC and their Dark Crystal are fantastic grains IMHO. Different flavours entirely to what you get from caramelisation but not worse. Just different. Again though, IMHO

Shawn.

 

[THE DRUNK ARAB]

Agree totally that it's a great way to add an extra dimension in the flavour of your beer. I did it recently with an Old Ale and it is still conditioning but tastes very promising. A couple of years ago to I caramelised the first runnings of a Bier de Garde and was stoked with the resulting drop, the idea came from the Guru of FNQ :beerbang: !

C&B
TDA

 

[T.D.]

Your call on the TT Landlord may or may not be right but I reckon the caramelised flavours and the TT Landlord yeast from Wyeast would make a GREAT combination...

G'day Shawn, just out of curiosity, what is your hunch on TTL? If the 100% GP rumour is true, the only option other than caramelisation must be that the GP they use is a higher EBC than the ale malt we get from Bairds. I think this is also quite plausible. Its a topic on on-going conjecture that's for sure!

Just out of interest though... I disagree regarding the British Crystal malts. Baird's 140-160 EBC and their Dark Crystal are fantastic grains IMHO. Different flavours entirely to what you get from caramelisation but not worse. Just different. Again though, IMHO

Yeah, I guess I was primarily referring to JW crystal. I just find that sometimes it can be disjointed - almost as if you can tell where the ale malt flavours end and the crystal flavours start, if you get what I mean. The cloying crystal flavours seem to leap out more than the malty flavours do in the caramelised beer. But I agree that some of the flavours coming out of Bairds specialty malts are pretty damned nice! I also err on the side of dark crystal these days, rather than lighter crystals - I find they produce a flavour that is less obviously "sweet". I think it was Warren who in a past conversation put it perfectly - the caramelisation gives more of a toffee flavour, while crystal tends to be more "lolly-like".

 

[T.D.]

Agree totally that it's a great way to add an extra dimension in the flavour of your beer. I did it recently with an Old Ale and it is still conditioning but tastes very promising. A couple of years ago to I caramelised the first runnings of a Bier de Garde and was stoked with the resulting drop, the idea came from the Guru of FNQ :beerbang: !

C&B
TDA

Hey TDA, great timing on the Bier de Garde suggestion! I have been planning to do one of these for a while. I'll definitely go for the caramelisation option when I finally get around to it - sounds like it'll work beautifully! :beerbang:

 

[kevnlis]

I did a "dunkleryezen" which was reallyjust a dunkleweizen with a kilo of the wheat subbed for a kilo of rye. I took the first 8L of clear runnings from the tun (at a ration of 2.5L/kg) and boiled it down to under 2L then added it to the final boil. Unfortunately I forgot to compensate for the extra loss of water and I ended up with a VERY strong 17L batch instead of a nice 23L batch. It was still a good drop, just couldn;t drink more than one in a night

 

[ausdb]

G'day Shawn, just out of curiosity, what is your hunch on TTL? If the 100% GP rumour is true, the only option other than caramelisation must be that the GP they use is a higher EBC than the ale malt we get from Bairds. I think this is also quite plausible. Its a topic on on-going conjecture that's for sure!

The TTLLPA attempts I have made in the past except for the day we mashed a whole bag have all employed caramelisation of the runnings using 100% GP and apart from my hopping being out has come pretty close to the mark. The 1st one used WY1968 but from then on I have been using WY1469 from Kirems original bulk buy. The info TT have on their website points to it being 100% GP so as you say unless theirs is kilned darker caramelisation works for the rest of us.

 

[chappo1970]

Bump-o-matic

OK since trying BribieG's TTL and ensuing commentary on his recipe thread I thought it be better if we could revive this thread and discuss the ins and out of 1st running Caramelising here.

Now I really want to have a go at this because from 1st hand tasting the difference and what it brings to the right styled beer is absolutely exceptional and IMO well worth the effort.

So can anyone enlighten and educate me to the definitive process/method/theories for the caramelisation of wort.

Cheers

Chappo

 

[Steve]

So can anyone enlighten and educate me to the definitive process/method/theories for the caramelisation of wort.

yeah all the people above :lol:

Sounds interesting. I wonder if TD is still buying crystal?

 

[jbirbeck]

I missed this thread first time around but it certainly looks like something I'll have a go at. Should be easy enough to give the first runnings a good boil down while sparging.

 

[Steve]

Wouldnt you get break material forming in the kettle when you are draining the cooler 2nd runnings in?

Cheers
Steve

 

[LLoyd]

This is something that has me really interested since Katie mentioned posts on here about it. It fits nicely with my growing obsession with traditional IPAs. So I started doing some research and a few practise runs with plain white sugar. If I took it off the heat too early, although brown, it just tasted like sugar. The ones I thought I'd buggared (smokey) had some really nice CARAMEL flavours and a slight bitterness..

On Bribie's super landlord thread BoilerBoy makes a good point;

Just as a technical point of interest and for whatever its worth? though we all know what we we mean by "caramelization"in this process, from what I have read it strictly speaking isn't! as the temps invoved to do this begin at 170C, its "Maillards reaction," which is the heating (or boiling in this case) of sugar compounds in the presence of an acid which creates flavours similar to melanoidins.

My thermometer ***** itself at about 160C, but even with my old one (200C), the size of the flame and size of the mix differences made measurements pretty haphazard.

This guy http://www.davidlebovitz.com/archives/2008...o_make_the.html reckons you're better off learning to judge it visually (smoke).

Definately something worth playing with!

Congratulations Bribie! :icon_cheers:
Inspirational stuff.

Lloydie

 

[chappo1970]

My Grandma being a country farm girl used to make the most exceptional sweets, candies, caramels and taffies. Being a wee little 'un at the time candy held my attention greatly especially if it meant getting the broken pieces.

Anyway I think a valid point was made in the other thread where it was said that we are more evaporating/reducing/concentrating rather than caramelising in the true sense. I remember my Grandma religiously used a sugar thermometer and everything depended on time and temperature. I even remember her stepping temps to attain different results. So what I wanted to know is if anyone has put anymore science behind caramelising wort rather than boiling the bejesus outa it?

Cheers

Chappo

 

[BoilerBoy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction

Just sime basic info on the effect of Maillards reaction.

Cheers,
BB

 

[luckyeatwell]

I've now tried this process of caramelisation (for want of a better term) 3 times in recent AG recipes (An ESB, Brown Porter and a BdG). I've taken anywhere from 2 to 4 L of first runnings and boiled it down till it thickened to be the consistency of golden syrup and sticking to the sides of the pot.

I'm yet to be satisfied with the results in any additional flavour - I couldn't discern any "caramel" as I know and love in some of the commercial ESB's and IPA's.

Colour change is hard to discern as I've no control sample to compare too.

Haven't noticed any decrease in fermentability either, which I thought may occur. All of them have fermented out beyond expectations (too dry in one case).

I'd love for someone to accurately describe how to get the caramel flavour (and colour) of the commercial British Ales. I think my next attempt at any british ale is going to combine maybe 5 - 10% sugar - "caramelised" to an amber colour, along the lines of the home-made candi-sugar process discussed elsewhere, as well as wort-caramelisation.
I can only hope this will deliver on flavour and colour.

Cheers,

Lucky.

 

[chappo1970]

Thanks BB great read BTW. However this was stuck in the middle of it:

Caramelization is an entirely different process from Maillard browning, though the results of the two processes are sometimes similar to the naked eye (and tastebuds). Caramelization may sometimes cause browning in the same foods in which the Maillard reaction occurs, but the two processes are distinct. They both are promoted by heating, but the Maillard reaction involves amino acids, as discussed above, while caramelization is simply the pyrolysis of certain sugars.

So we might be on to something yet?

Your right Lucky to me that's the holy grail but I want to be able to do it predictably and be repeatable.

Cheers

Chappo

 

[chappo1970]

And this adds more to what BB was saying earlier:

Pyrolysis also plays an essential role in the production of barley tea, coffee, and roasted nuts such as peanuts and almonds. As these consist mostly of dry materials, the process of pyrolysis is not limited to the outermost layers but extends throughout the materials. In all these cases, pyrolysis creates or releases many of the substances that contribute to the flavor, color, and biological properties of the final product. It may also destroy some substances that are toxic, unpleasant in taste, or those that may contribute to spoilage.

Controlled pyrolysis of sugars starting at 170 C (340 F) produces caramel, a beige to brown water-soluble product which is widely used in confectionery and (in the form of caramel coloring) as a coloring agent for soft drinks and other industrialized food products.

Chappo