Caramelising First Runnings

[Ross]

I'm still not totally convinced that caramelising the wort adds actual caramel taste to the wort. I probably need to work on some side by side tests.
The Imperial mild I caramelised the wort of already had heaps of crystal in the recipe, so the great aroma could have been from either - the Banana beer I followed up with had no caramal flavour at all using the same process.


Cheers Ross

 

[manticle]

I need to do a blind side by side to really be able to confirm but to my mind it's quite distinctive when the caramel is really thick syrup (not just a bit of reduced wort).

One day but there's so many side by sides I don't know where to begin.

 

[RdeVjun]

Interesting discussion once again chaps! :icon_cheers:

Yes, sometimes I wonder if I'm kidding myself about the degree, if any, of a caramel flavour change. However, I think the variability in the results is partly explained by different endpoint for anyone who tries it as there isn't a gauge or measure for when to actually stop caramelising. Every brewer will have a different endpoint with this caper, and I think many brewers have stopped too early in their process for any real benefits, my conclusion is that it needs to be almost smoking to be having any effect.
The fact that maltose caramelises at 180C is probably quite important, I suspect many brewers have not come close to this temperature, although there are probably other sugars caramelising at lower temperatures that could be contributing to the flavour profile and perhaps in varying proportions. I would like to measure the actual temperatures (with a candy thermometer) achieved in the process the way I do it, just haven't got around to it. I don't doubt there's a discernable flavour shift (and obviously some colour but that's immaterial to me), lending some repeatability to the process would be one way to put a lot of the debate to bed, the best I can do so far is to stop when it starts to smell like it is about to burn.

I'll post some pics next time I do it with wort, today I did the caramelised DME effort mentioned earlier, some pics...

So, this is how it looks at the beginning, about 1/2 a cup of hot water with 200g of Coopers' Dried Malt Extract:

About half way through. Frothing is obvious, but the stuff is sticking to the sides of the pot and forms a sort of honeycomb (confectionery)/ styrofoam texture, not just the thick sticky liquid any more.

The end point today. Note the consistency, I don't usually take it quite this far, it has formed a mass rather than being just a sticky goo in the bottom of the pan. There's a distinct almost- burning odor, not really smoky though. I'm expecting this to have more of a Caraaroma flavour and aroma.


The wort I've added this to is actually 100% Bairds Perle/ Pale Ale with just a mashout decoction, I'll post a hydrometer sample pic when its finished the boil. I started this caper trying to emulate TTL which supposedly has 100% GP, some caramelised wort and 1469, but I think now that I'm more into TTL- inspired ESBs.

:beer:

 

[RdeVjun]

The post- boil hydro sample to go with my previous post.

Quite a strong colouring this time and much darker than my usual 100% base malt + 2L wort caramelisation- they're not generally this dark but this one is with DME and not my usual process. I'll be doing one on the weekend in the usual manner but will take it to the same endpoint, extreme though it might have been... :huh:

If there's no caramel imparted from the last pic in my previous post, I'll probably just give up! :icon_cheers:

 

[muckanic]

Seeing this thread seems to have revived itself, here's an update from my end. After caramelising the entire first high-gravity runnings a while back, I managed to wind up with a terminal gravity of 30. Some dry beer enzyme subsequently reduced that gravity down to near 0 over a period of a month or so. So what you say? Well, it suggests that the caramelisation (condensation?) process is not creating a particularly complex sugar. It could very well be malto-dextrin.

As for making caramel out of DME instead of wort, I'm basically too much of a tight-*rs*. I think I'd be more inclined to boil down the entire first runnings of a batch with a view towards having several future additions of caramel ready to go.