Canning starter wort - a few questions

[Moad]

I did a quick search and couldn't find what I am after, apologies if this is obvious.

I've picked up a pressure cooker and am canning up some 1.080 (350ml) starter jars as we speak. I will also run some 1.030 jars, the intention being 1 x 1.030 jar for a first step and 3 1.080 jars diluted to 1.040 for a second step will get me a 2L starter from a vial.

My question is, to make it cheaper I am going to do a grain batch and can it. Do I need to do a full boil if I use pale malt? Or can I put it in jars after the mash and then run them in the pressure cooker for 30 minutes? My concern is DMS from not boiling...

 

[Smokomark]

If you are doing starters won't you decant most of the wort before pitching?
I normally bottle mine into preheated tallies, cap them and then give them 20-30 mins in the hlt at about 90 degrees.

 

[Moad]

This is just making the starter wort, nothing to do with yeast...yet.

Idea is that I can have them sitting ready to go rather than boiling and cooling DME before pitching for the starter.

 

[n87]

Why wouldnt you just boil it, can it hot... then you wouldnt need to worry about the pressure cooker.
Same theory behind cubing

Regarding DMS, you would have to find out if the DMS nasty stuff stays with the yeast, or is just in the beer and able to be decanted off?

 

[Moad]

pressure cooker seals and sterlises, removes the risk of botulism and other nasties

I just found an answer out there anyway...

There will likely be DMS with no boil but you can decant it off. Think I'll just do a boil then can them. Cheers

 

[Bribie G]

Coles have started selling 1 litre mason jars with the red gingham pattern lids, for $3.
I've switched over to them from my 500g jars for yogurt etc.

Sounds like a good idea, I sometimes freeze wort but then it has to be thawed then re-boiled to be safe. Your method gives you jars ready to go.

 

[n87]

is there much problem with the shrinkage as its cooling down?
or is it all taken by the lid?

 

[huez]

Did you get a pressure cooker or an actual pressure canner? I've been looking into this recently because i already have a normal pressure cooker but apparently the actual pressure you "can" at is quite important, something like 10 or 15psi for 20mins. They aren't that cheap but god i would be happy if i didn't have to make starter wort every time i want to brew.

n87 i think its taken by the lid when it sucks down. Pretty sure the proper ones aren't even screw on lids, just a disc that sits on top of the jar.

 

[Moad]

Just ran first batch through, seal lightly as they go into the pressure cooker and the cooling pulls them in. They are cool now and the lids are sucked in tight but not buckled so it looks like the lid can take the shrinkage.

I would like to go bigger Bribie but the pressure cooker I have is only 5.5L (Kmart) and fits 4 x pintl ball mason jars nicely. I looked at pressure canners but they need a stovetop and are another $100. I can leave the pressure cooker in the brewery and it is electric so I don't need to be paranoid about watching over it. It even has a countdown timer. About to run another lot through now...

edit: mine is just a $79 kmart one. It operates at 10psi and has a preset 30 minute timer for soup that I used. That takes it to 115 for 30 minutes at 10 psi.

You can go hotter on one of the settings but from inital research it looks like the soup preset is fine.

If you look up Ball Mason Jars that is what I use, they are a two piece lid and you can remove the screw top and the pressure holds the lid on tight however I see no point in doing this as they all come with the 2 pieces.

 

[huez]

^ looks like i could be going to kmart on the weekend! Cheers for that. I couldn't find any info on what my pressure cooker actually holds its pressure at.

There's a couple of ebay stores that sell the ball mason jars for reasonably cheap. i'd be happy if i could can enough for a couple of months worth of brews.

 

[Bribie G]

No need to do a full mash big brew. Just a mini BIAB stovetop in a stockpot to yield about 6 litres of a base malt 1050 wort and maybe a tsp of yeast nutrient in as well.
The yeasties won't complain.

My Aldi pressure cooker holds four 500ml Coles mason jars, as you can make out they are two piece lids and the jars are good quality. The litre one obviously wouldn't fit.
Thanks for the OP, I'm doing some lagers for the competitions this year, don't usually do lagers and I'd been puzzling on making big starters, as I don't really want to be introducing any LDME hints into the finished beer.

Rather than no-chill, I intend to coil chill the wort on these occasions so using spare wort from the same brew is just not an option.

Off to Coles tomorrow

 

[Vini2ton]

A few years ago I bought a Brasillian/Chinese pressure-cooker from woolies for about $45. It's a ripper and fits 4 ball jars. Big W has all the ball stuff. I do DME starter wort with a wee pinch of yeast nutrient in them and it really is convenient to have starter-wort in the brew cupboard for when you want to fire up a starter. Plus heaps of canned tomatoes never go astray. Modern pressure cookers with the silicon rings are the ducks bollocks.

 

[Moad]

surprised more people aren't on this already, looks to be reasonable uptake in the US but then canning is more popular in general (jams etc).

I'll pick up some coles cars thanks Bribie, the Ball pint jars are about $35 for 12. I got really lucky and found 12 for $20 on gumtree yesterday, brand new.

Anyway, I now have another batch in and one batch after that ready to go. Then I'll have 6L of wort ready to go @1.040 and then 3L at 1.030 for initial step out of vials.

Stovetop sounds like the go, although 1kg grain is $3.50 and will make 5L. 1KG of DME is $8 (?) and will make 10L... worth the little effort if decanting the liquid off. Of course if we are pitching the whole amount and don't want DME going into the beer then stovetop is preferred.

 

[Alex.Tas]

Why wouldnt you just boil it, can it hot... then you wouldnt need to worry about the pressure cooker.
Same theory behind cubing

This sounds like the go.
pressure cooking in small batches seems to me to be just as much of a PITA as boiling up some DME each time.

Can mason jars take the change in temperature from adding near boiling wort directly like a borosilicate flask could?

or should i look at using my HLT to "preheat" the jars.

 

[Moad]

I've just canned up 9L with minimal effort. No risk of boilovers, lower risk of contamination. You can put hot wort into a jar but it won't be sterile, it needs to be over 100 degrees to kill everything.

Also - It's cooling the starter to pitch yeast that I find painful. Now I'll just throw some prepared wort in the flask, pitch yeast and throw on the stir plate.

 

[kaiserben]

Hey Moad,

Could you quickly run through your process?

Firstly interested in your initial calculations to make a certain volume of starter wort at a certain gravity (Did you make a 9L batch of 1.080 wort and then you diluted some of it down to 1.030 and canned the rest at 1.080?)

And then also interested in your process for diluting your wort (at what stage do you dilute? and I assume you dilute with boiled water?)

 

[Moad]

Sure mate I've only just started canning them.

I measured out half of them at 1.040 and half at 1.080 to be diluted later. You can measure out various strengths and volumes here - http://www.captainbrew.com/dme-calculator

I just added the DME into mason jar and topped up with water to 450ml, screwed the lids on the jars finger tight. Threw them into the pressure cooker with 1 litre of water, set to 115 degrees for 35 minutes at 10psi ("soup" setting on the kmart PC). When finished I turned off the PC and let it cool down - I depressurised and pulled them out early on one batch and they started to boil which was pretty cool to see but also dangerous. Let it all cool down slowly. so the 9L is made up of 6 jars of 500ml at 1.040 (slightly under 3L as the jars are ~450ml) and then 3L of 1.080 to be diluted back to 1.040 to make 6L of starter. Again slightly under, so more like 8L as you don't fill the mason jars to the top.

This is as far as I have gone up to now. I am thinking of getting a large pressure canner so I can make up 1L jars of wort and I don't need to dilute. That or just buy a stack of the coles jars Bribie mentioned.

I'll either pre make some sterilised water with the same method to dilute the 1.080 or just throw tap water when pitching in which I understand opens up a small risk to infection or other crap in the water. Another option is to boil it in the flask and have the pre made wort frozen then mix them together which should bring it back down to pitching temp almost.

 

[kaiserben]

Ah. Got it now.

I bought some jars a while back with the intention of using for starters and/or yeast storage. I just hadn't got around to buying the pressure cooker or investiagting the exact process involved.

Once cooled how long is it safe to store the filled jars for? (room temp or in fridge?)

 

[Moad]

The idea is that you can essentially store them indefinitely. They are sterilised. If I had to store them in the fridge I wouldn't bother, the beauty is I can store them in the cupboard. I assume sunlight wouldn't be good so anywhere dark and out of the way.

I can't imagine I will store them any longer than a couple of months though.

This is just from reading a couple of US posts, if there is nothing already on AHB I will take some photos and detail the process properly. I was half expecting someone to come along with a link to an existing thread

 

[kaiserben]

Are you happy with the 5.5L Kmart pressure cooker?

My SWMBO has been talking about buying one. If we get that one will it suit both my brewing purposes and her cooking purposes?