Candi Sygar V's Table (beet) Sugar

[gibbocore]

Hi All,

I've been scouring the site and reading all to be said about plain sugar and table sugar and after listening to the pod cast about al lthe sugars used in a belgian blonde on the brew show, i've come to a conclusion and would like some clarification on my clarifications ^_^

What i gather is that clear candi sugar (or invert) wont offer any taste differences and the reasons behind using candi sugar is for colour and toffee flavours from the amber and dark candi's.

So in short for my duvel clone, should normal table sugar suffice and would i benefit at all from making clear invert sugar?

Cheers.

 

[buttersd70]

Invert sugar is the way to go. The main reason is that invert sugar is a mixture of glucose and fructose, wheras table sugar is glucose and fructose with a bond between them. The belgians use invert to boost the OG without producing off flavours from the yeast having to break the bond in the sucrose.

You can make your own invert sugar with a bit of time, a thermometer, and citric acid....there are a few methodologies on the web, if you google it. (or if you don't want to bother, just buy kandi sugar.)

EDIT: I have never used it, so don't know whether it would suffice, but Lyles brand golden syrup is a liquid inverse sugar.

 

[kook]

You can make your own invert sugar with a bit of time, a thermometer, and citric acid....there are a few methodologies on the web, if you google it. (or if you don't want to bother, just buy kandi sugar.)

Actually - using those methods at home only results in a very slight level of hydrolysis. I think you're better off letting the yeast do it.


edit - Just noticed this:

"The belgians use invert to boost the OG without producing off flavours from the yeast having to break the bond in the sucrose"

Which Belgian brewers use fully (95%+) inverted sugar to boost OG?

 

[kook]

Hi All,

I've been scouring the site and reading all to be said about plain sugar and table sugar and after listening to the pod cast about al lthe sugars used in a belgian blonde on the brew show, i've come to a conclusion and would like some clarification on my clarifications ^_^

What i gather is that clear candi sugar (or invert) wont offer any taste differences and the reasons behind using candi sugar is for colour and toffee flavours from the amber and dark candi's.

So in short for my duvel clone, should normal table sugar suffice and would i benefit at all from making clear invert sugar?

Cheers.

Personally, for pale Belgian beers I simply use white sugar. I don't see the sense in wasting money on the rock candy sold in stores, as its not fully inverted anyway.

For dark Belgian beers however I like to use candi syrup, which is essentially a byproduct of beet sugar processing. It tastes similar to molasses - very rummy.

 

[warrenlw63]

So in short for my duvel clone, should normal table sugar suffice and would i benefit at all from making clear invert sugar?

Invert sugar is the way to go. The main reason is that invert sugar is a mixture of glucose and fructose, wheras table sugar is glucose and fructose with a bond between them. The belgians use invert to boost the OG without producing off flavours from the yeast having to break the bond in the sucrose.

You can make your own invert sugar with a bit of time, a thermometer, and citric acid....there are a few methodologies on the web, if you google it. (or if you don't want to bother, just buy kandi sugar.)

EDIT: I have never used it, so don't know whether it would suffice, but Lyles brand golden syrup is a liquid inverse sugar.

Or you could save yourself some time and effort and just use plain old dextrose like Moortgat supposedly do. Available at all good HB stores.

Either method should give you a good beer.

Warren -

 

[wrangler]

I don't think I've ever seen so many "suga" threads at the one time. Butters must be close on needing a fresh pair of underwear!

 

[gibbocore]

Or you could save yourself some time and effort and just use plain old dextrose like Moortgat supposedly do. Available at all good HB stores.

Either method should give you a good beer.

Warren -

Now i'm intrigued, dex hey. Didn't even think of that.

 

[warrenlw63]

gibbocore

If you're seriously making a lot of Belgian beers I suggest reading "Brew Like a Monk".

Really top read, also where I gleaned my info.

Warren -

 

[gibbocore]

gibbocore

If you're seriously making a lot of Belgian beers I suggest reading "Brew Like a Monk".

Really top read, also where I gleaned my info.

Warren -

I want to seriously make a lot of belgians, so i should probably grab a copy.

Cheers. :icon_cheers:

edit: just bought it along with palmers HTB, i should read the whole thing, might save half the questions i seem to ask, thanks amazon.

 

[Rod]

I have made my own candy sugar to a honey colour

and find it makes a difference

especially when the brew ages , say 6 months

worth the effort

 

[jojai]

Just to clarify there Rod, you made the same or similar recipe with both homemade candi and with white sugar? Or you're just speculating that it makes a difference? Not to be an ass, but I just want to make sure this is somewhat empirical before I go to the effort of candi sugar. Cheers, Joseph.

 

[gap]

Make some and taste it. For amber and darker Belgians it
will make a difference to just using white sugar.

I cook mine for a minimum of 3 hours , especially to get the dark red/black colour.


Regards

Graeme

 

[Luka]

gibbocore

If you're seriously making a lot of Belgian beers I suggest reading "Brew Like a Monk".

Really top read, also where I gleaned my info.

Warren -

I'm reading it ATM, good read and gives you all the info on what the Trappist breweries use. Unfortunately don't have my copy here at work so I can't look up a good answer for your question. An interesting read though.

 

[Rod]

I have never made beer with straight sucrose

My " tastes better " is from making beers with malt dextrose etc

and tasting a fuller , smoother , caramel taste with candy sugar

 

[T.D.]

I have never made beer with straight sucrose

I know one guy who does...

Where is beeroclock these days anyway???

 

[kook]

I'd rather avoid a caramel taste in a BPA, but thats just me. BPA for me is all about drinkability - clean biscuity malt flavour and light spice and fruit from hops and yeast - not sweet caramel notes.

edit - Ignore that, for some reason I thought you were brewing a BPA.

Statement still stands for a BGSA though. I don't think you need caramel flavours there.

 

[Rod]

I'd rather avoid a caramel taste in a BPA, but thats just me. BPA for me is all about drinkability - clean biscuity malt flavour and light spice and fruit from hops and yeast - not sweet caramel notes.

edit - Ignore that, for some reason I thought you were brewing a BPA.

Statement still stands for a BGSA though. I don't think you need caramel flavours there.

The brewferm Belgium Tripple and the Tarwbeier were the beers I made

Got them cheap as they were near their useby date

 

[braufrau]

There's a new belgian sugar experiment on basicbrewing radio here.

The mad fermentationist made his own dark candi sugar by keeping at at constant T for hours. He had a thermometer with an alarm on it, so he could wander away as long as he was in ear shot. Handy!

I'm afraid I didn't pay much attention to the whole show but I think the conclusion was that the candi sugar didn't make the best beer .. but I can't remember what did! How feeble is that? Perhaps I should download it and listen again.

Conversely on teh original experiment here
they were almost falling on the floor with delight over the beer made with the commercial syrup.

Go figure!

None of which answers you question because you're asking about clear sugar.

Well I used to think that it was important to invert the sugar because then the yeast doesn't have to do it and produce unpleasant esters in the process. Now I'm not so sure but I still do it anyway ... sort of like throwing salt over my shoulder.
Its easy, just sugar, water and citric acid and use a candy thermometer to keep it at syrup temperature.
And it makes an interesting effect when you toss boiling sugar syrup into boiling wort.

 

[kook]

There's a new belgian sugar experiment on basicbrewing radio here.

The mad fermentationist made his own dark candi sugar by keeping at at constant T for hours. He had a thermometer with an alarm on it, so he could wander away as long as he was in ear shot. Handy!

I'm afraid I didn't pay much attention to the whole show but I think the conclusion was that the candi sugar didn't make the best beer .. but I can't remember what did! How feeble is that? Perhaps I should download it and listen again.

In his previous sugar experiments the dark candi syrup sounds like the nicest tasting option for darker belgians. Date sugar sounded interesting too.

His use of white sugar in the first test was flawed though, as the fermentation wasn't temp controlled like the others:

"The only big disappointment from the group was the white sugar, because I did not have enough room in my fermentation fridge or enough small fermenters the beer ended up tasting boozy and rather unpleasant. In general there is nothing wrong with adding refined white sugar to your beer, I have used it as up to 20% of the fermentables, with good yeast management and temperature control the beers did not come out cidery or unpleasant."

 

[marlow_coates]

Ok. read this thread and several articles on the net about how to make my own candi sugar. bought a candi thermometer a week ago. Then realised i had some time this arvo and went and bought 1kg of sugar.

However, i got distracted when looking at sugars <_<

And not wanting to drive back and ask this question i bought 1kg of CSR dark brown sugar.

Came home, added water and lemon juice and started boiling. Only to discover that the bargain candi thermometer I got that says it goes up to 200C, actually didn't go above 120C :angry: So i couldn't get accuarately into the 127C - 135C range as recommended.

Pretty much I just let it boil for about 20 min then transfered to cake tin with grease proof paper lining it.

Have I made Candi Sugar?
What is the potential difference in using dark brown sugar?

It did taste great and when dried on the spoon was very similar to toffee.

Will adding this to my intended belgium have a down side?

Cheers

Marlow