Calibrating The Brewery

[Goofinder]

I've decided it's time to calibrate my brewery so I can get some consistency into my AG brewery. I've seen the BeerSmith Equipment Setup page, but still not sure about a couple of things:

1. Lauter tun deadspace - how do you measure this? Is it just as simple as filling the mash tun with water, letting it drain until it drains no more and measuring what is left? Or do I need to take into account the grain volume somehow?
2. Losses to trub and chiller - what's the best way to measure this? If I drain out after the boil, it's pretty hard to get all the trub out without adding water. I'm thinking the best way is probably to just calculate the volume left in there based on the height it takes up.
3. Following on, does this change all that much depending on the amount of hops used in the boil?
4. In general, what's the better way of calibrating a kettle? Actually pouring in 1L at a time from a jug, or calculating based on the height from the bottom? Advantages/disadvantages of dipsticks vs markings on the kettle?

This should probably all be obvious, but I'd rather do it once and get it sorted so I can start hitting target gravities and volumes and making better beer!

 

[white.grant]

Its better to brew something and measure the difference, then measure and calculate against your original estimate - shoot low first off. Brewing is part science, part black art and understanding the idiosyncracy of your brewhouse is one of the arts and its going to change from time to time....

for example tun deadspace will need to take account of the grain absorption which will vary depending on the grain bill you're using, --- more grain more absoprtion, more water required.

Kettle loss will also vary - the difference between using pellets and fresh hops is quite significant, boiling more vigorously will also change things a lot.

It will take more than "once" to get things dialed in, but if you pay attention and keep records and accurate measurements from brew to brew, you'll get a much better feel for your process, much faster.

cheers

grant

 

[Screwtop]

Its better to brew something and measure the difference, then measure and calculate against your original estimate - shoot low first off. Brewing is part science, part black art and understanding the idiosyncracy of your brewhouse is one of the arts and its going to change from time to time....

I disagree, get some sort of an idea first before brewing anything.

Lauter tun deadspace - how do you measure this? Is it just as simple as filling the mash tun with water, letting it drain until it drains no more and measuring what is left?

Measure water into your tun, then drain and measure the amount, the diff is your deadspace.

Or do I need to take into account the grain volume somehow?

Beersmith will take care of this for you, or allow 1.1L/Kg

Losses to trub and chiller - what's the best way to measure this? If I drain out after the boil, it's pretty hard to get all the trub out without adding water. I'm thinking the best way is probably to just calculate the volume left in there based on the height it takes up.

Set the trub and chiller loss to 0, a glitch with Beersmith, if you allow for this bittering is only calculated on the final volume not the total. Set the position of your pickup tube to allow for a couple of litres in the bottom of the kettle for hop and break material, this can be adjusted later to suit your gear. Measure the volume left after draining the kettle (use water) and add this to the volume you want in the fermenter to arrive at your final volume (ie: you want 22L in the fermenter and there is 2.2L left in the kettle after draining due to the position of your pickup tube, set the final volume to 24.2L.

Following on, does this change all that much depending on the amount of hops used in the boil?

Yes

In general, what's the better way of calibrating a kettle? Actually pouring in 1L at a time from a jug, or calculating based on the height from the bottom? Advantages/disadvantages of dipsticks vs markings on the kettle?

From experience, use water to mark dipstick calibrations, and yes, 1L per addition, boring as it may be. Remember that measurements of hot wort in the kettle pre boil will appear larger, so allow around 3%+ for expansion (ie: 33L in the kettle preboil = around 32L preboil. Use this when calculating your postboil volume.

Hope you find this helpful.

Screwy

 

[buttersd70]

Beersmith will take care of this for you, or allow 1.1L/Kg

Beersmith does do it, its under tools,options,advanced.

Set the trub and chiller loss to 0, a glitch with Beersmith, if you allow for this bittering is only calculated on the final volume not the total. Set the position of your pickup tube to allow for a couple of litres in the bottom of the kettle for hop and break material, this can be adjusted later to suit your gear. Measure the volume left after draining the kettle (use water) and add this to the volume you want in the fermenter to arrive at your final volume (ie: you want 22L in the fermenter and there is 2.2L left in the kettle after draining due to the position of your pickup tube, set the final volume to 24.2L.

I thought there was something funky with this setting, but couldn't quite put my finger on it...I've been getting much better results since setting it to 0

 

[Goofinder]

Hope you find this helpful.

Thanks a lot, looks like exactly what I was after.

 

[Fents]

that loss to trub and chiller option is a prick, gets heaps of beersmith users i know.

 

[drsmurto]

Screwys post is all the info you'll ever need. I have adjusted a few things myself after reading that!

Goofinder, am brewing on Sunday, up in the hills. If you want to see how my system is setup both physically and how the numbers look in beersmith you are more than welcome. PM me if you are keen. Making a german pilsner.

As for dead space in the kettle, i am a tipper so that number is effectively 0 anyway

 

[Offline]

...
From experience, use water to mark dipstick calibrations, and yes, 1L per addition, boring as it may be. Remember that measurements of hot wort in the kettle pre boil will appear larger, so allow around 3%+ for expansion (ie: 33L in the kettle preboil = around 32L preboil. Use this when calculating your postboil volume.

Hope you find this helpful.

Screwy

If your vessel is not a simple cylinder, i.e. it has bulges here and there as well as tapering at the ends, then this is the only easy way to calibrate the volume.

One thing to be wary of calibrating this way is that, any error in your 1L measure will accumulate with each addition.

 

[Bizier]

You could try to accurately weigh the 1L measurement to ensure it is 1kg and place a new mark on the small vessel.

 

[Offline]

if you had accurate scales that went up to your desired final weight, you could do this with the large vessel, one Kg at a time

 

[Phrak]

I wouldn't personally bother with 1L increments all the way from 0-∞L when you're never going to use them all.

If you're doing single batches in a 50L keg-shaped kettle (use the spear as a great dip-stick), you'll only really need to measure from 20-40L. Anything less than than, especially <10L, is purely academic.

 

[Goofinder]

One thing to be wary of calibrating this way is that, any error in your 1L measure will accumulate with each addition.

Yeah, this is why I was asking about calculating the volume, rather than measuring it out 1L at a time. But I don't think the error will really be all that significant over 30L (especially with all the other variables involved), it's more that I didn't really feel like measuring it all out!

I wouldn't personally bother with 1L increments all the way from 0-∞L when you're never going to use them all.

If you're doing single batches in a 50L keg-shaped kettle (use the spear as a great dip-stick), you'll only really need to measure from 20-40L. Anything less than than, especially <10L, is purely academic.

Definitely. Although in my setup the HLT and kettle are the same 30L urn, so I reckon I'll need pretty much the whole range of the sight glass to account for all the measurements I should have been taking so far. Will also save me using the 1L jug and getting lazy with the measuring when adding the strike/sparge water. My 'other' vessel (for collecting wort) should only need from 10-19L marked out.

 

[Screwtop]

Screwys post is all the info you'll ever need. I have adjusted a few things myself after reading that!

Goofinder, am brewing on Sunday, up in the hills. If you want to see how my system is setup both physically and how the numbers look in beersmith you are more than welcome. PM me if you are keen. Making a german pilsner.

As for dead space in the kettle, i am a tipper so that number is effectively 0 anyway

Goofinder, that right there is an offer you should take up, touchy feely brewing is the way to learn.

Screwy

 

[Goofinder]

Ok, I finally got around to making some measurements last night and setting up a scale for use on my urn. As it turns out, it's close enough to 1cm = 1L (by measurement and by calculation) that I'll probably just use a steel ruler most of the time.

Just one more question... for now...

Lauter tun deadspace - how do you measure this? Is it just as simple as filling the mash tun with water, letting it drain until it drains no more and measuring what is left?

Measure water into your tun, then drain and measure the amount, the diff is your deadspace.

Or do I need to take into account the grain volume somehow?

Beersmith will take care of this for you, or allow 1.1L/Kg

While I mentioned Beersmith in the original question, I want to work out the numbers myself at least once so I know what's going on. My dead space (measured by the above method) was 3.5L, but surely I don't need to allow this much extra? I mean, the dead space after the mash is filled with grain which has absorbed water, so it's not like there is 3.5L of liquid sitting there as well as all the liquid in the grain.

 

[mika]

That's how it works. 5kgs of grain, at 3L/kg = 15L mash in. Lose 1.1l/kg to grain = 5.5L lost, dead volume lost 3.5L, therefore total from mash, 15-5.5-3.5= 6L.
Program (or your calcs) tells you, 25L pre-boil, means add 19L of sparge water to achieve your pre-boil volume.

 

[katzke]

While I mentioned Beersmith in the original question, I want to work out the numbers myself at least once so I know what's going on. My dead space (measured by the above method) was 3.5L, but surely I don't need to allow this much extra? I mean, the dead space after the mash is filled with grain which has absorbed water, so it's not like there is 3.5L of liquid sitting there as well as all the liquid in the grain.

Well it depends. If you have a false bottom then it would/could be the entire 3.5L. If you have a drain/manifold and there will be grain and wort in that space then it will be something less because the grain will take up some of the space.

Best if you are beginning to use the 3.5L and then after the brew day when doing clean up drain every last bit of liquid out of the mash tun and measure it. After a few brews you will get it dialed in. Your efficiency may go up in the process so the 3.5L will help you out the first few times. Also remember that the 3.5L you leave should be lower gravity wort so you are not missing much sugar in the math.

Now that you have the kettle calibrated you can stop collecting or boil a bit longer if you over collect a few times.

 

[SJW]

I think you need to have some educated guesses for the first brew and adjust as nessesary thereafter. As for kettle volume I just have 25, 30, 35 & 40 litre marks on the inside of my kettle made with my angle grinder. Anything in between is just guessed.
I find the most importent things are the evaporation rate and brewhouse effieciency. I set my losses to trub & chiller to 0 and just set my batch size accordingly. Even the losses in the tun get added into the batch size. Now that I think about it, thats dumb. So for 25 litres in the fermenter I set my batch size for 27 litres.
I seem to remember something about Beersmith not taking into consideration the IBU's for the trub & chiller losses or something like that. But this way works for me.

Steve

 

[mika]

Kinda correct Steve, the programs are working on end of boil, pre chilling as batch size. Mash tun losses are taken care of within the 'water needed' calcs.