Brewing Trouble, Help needed!

[clintonforster]

Hey Guys,

I've been doing 15 litre all grain, brew in a bag since january. I managed about 10 amazing brews, all my own recipes but since June I have had the same problem with every one of my brews no matter what recipe.

It always has the same detergent/soap smell.

I live down the road from grain and grape and have taken a few brews down to them to smell and taste and have tried everything they have suggested but even they have nothing left to suggest as i am always getting the same smell.

I have bought new fermenters and equipment twice now as well.

Below is my brewing process. If you have any advice for me please let me know!

• Clean and Sanitise all Surfaces with star san in spray bottle
• sanitise all equipment (airlock, stirring spoon etc) in tub with star san (correct amount of star san. 1.5ml per litre)
• Bring water to 70 degrees in my 18 litre stainless steel Pot with sanitised grain bag in.
• Add grains slowly and give good stir this brings the temp down to 66.5 degrees and i make sure it stays that temp for the 60 mins of steeping.
• Stir every 20 mins while i prepare hops and brewbrite.
• Half fill fermenter with star san (Correct amount 1.5ml per litre of water.) swish around and spray around the top with spray bottle. I leave the sanitiser in the fermenter until 10 mins before i put the cooled wort in and i let it dry.
• After the steeping i lift the grain bag out and dip it a couple of times. I then pour 4 liters of steeping temp water over the top of the grains.
• Put the grain bag into a strainer in another pot to let the rest of the goodness drip out.
• Bring up to boil and pour in what drains out of the grain bag
• Once boiling add bittering hops, and add flavour/aroma hops/brewbrite according to my recipe.
• I rehydrate my dry us-05 yeast by sanitising a brand new pyrex dish, adding water, boiling the water, bringing the temp of the water down to 20 degrees (glad wrap over the top of the dish). Pour the yeast on top evenly, leave for 15 mins and give a stir. The yeast rises and looks nice and healthy.
• Once the 60 min boil is finished I put on the lid and give the pot an ice bath until the temp is down to 20 degrees (30-40mins).
• Pour the contents into the fermenter leaving the last bit of trub out.
• Top up to the 15 litre mark.
• Add yeast
• Give a good stir.
• Put on lid nice and tight, Vodka in the airlock, put in my mini fridge at 18 degrees.
• Leave for 2 weeks in primary.

The problem seems to happen after about 3-4 days, the beer loses it's hoppiness and gets starts to develop the soapy/detergent smell.

I am all out of ideas and so are the guys at grain and grape. I don't want to give up on brewing as i built a kegerator myself and the brews i was doing originally were too freaking delicious to turn my back on.

If anyone can help me i would be so grateful!

 

[manticle]

What are you using to clean (not sanitise)?
Are you separating hot break from wort before transferring to fermenter?
What are your transfer hoses made from?
What are your keg lines made from?
Are you cleaning keg lines? What with?
Is the fermenting temperature or conditioning temperature getting out of hand at any point?

Soapy is likely either a cleaning product inadequately rinsed or a breakdown of fatty acids leading to the creation of soap in the brew.

 

[clintonforster]

I oxyper everything with warm water for 24 hours everytime.

I don't strain my hops I pour straight out of the Pot into the fermenter leaving the last bit of trud behind, the guys at G&G didn't think this was a big deal.

I clean the keg lines with oxyper and then star san But the problem is actually starting in the fermenter so alot of the time i'm not even transferring to the kegs.

I buy my tubing from grain and grape and replace often.

Fermentation temp is steady in my temperature controlled fridge.

Could my leaving the star san in the fermenter for a couple of hours be a problem? can you over sanitise?

 

[S.E]

What temp are you leaving it in the fermenter for two weeks? If you are getting a good healthy ferment it could be finished in 2-3 days and you can drop the temp to condition. Are you taking a gravity reading at any point?

 

[clintonforster]

18 degrees for the 2 weeks, the fermenting finishes in 3-4 days and steadily goes down, average og is 1.050 average sg is 1.008.

 

[S.E]

18 degrees for the 2 weeks, the fermenting finishes in 3-4 days and steadily goes down, average og is 1.050 average sg is 1.008.

I’d say that’s the problem. Though you can get away with leaving it in primary for two weeks its not best practice especially at 18c. Try crash cooling after 5 days.

 

[n87]

Could my leaving the star san in the fermenter for a couple of hours be a problem? can you over sanitise?

i doubt your couple of hours is a problem, i leave starsan in my (sealed) cubes for... until i need to use them

 

[clintonforster]

"i doubt your couple of hours is a problem, i leave starsan in my (sealed) cubes for... until i need to use them"

Yeah i though that may be the case

 

[clintonforster]

I’d say that’s the problem. Though you can get away with leaving it in primary for two weeks its not best practice especially at 18c. Try crash cooling after 5 days.

What if i'm dry hopping? I was previously only doing a week in primary and then racking to keg but the guys at Grain and Grape told me the yeast will clean up after itself after two weeks.

 

[manticle]

Dry hop in cold. Are you rinsing the oxyper?

What are the hoses made from?
Try leaving all the trub behind next time.

 

[Spiesy]

I’d say that’s the problem. Though you can get away with leaving it in primary for two weeks its not best practice especially at 18c. Try crash cooling after 5 days.

I doubt this is the problem.

 

[clintonforster]

Dry hop in cold. Are you rinsing the oxyper?

What are the hoses made from?
Try leaving all the trub behind next time.

yeah rinsing with hot water very well, I buy the hoses from grain and grape. This weekend i'm going to strain it while pouring into the fermenter.

 

[NewtownClown]

It's more than likely the combination of two things; trub and time... reduce one (or both).
Trub (cold and hot break and hop debris) contains fatty acids - good for initial yeast growth but will break down over time.

Skim the hot break as it forms and leave as much of the trub behind as you can. Don't bother filtering or straining, just a very careful pour or siphon.

 

[Truman42]

How are you filling your brew vessels with water?

I once had a similar problem. I was filling my HLT with a food grade hose from the tap. But I would just coil the hose up at EOB and sit on the shelf. A month later when I brewed again I connected the hose up but didnt flush it out. The water sitting inside the hose had gone manky and caused my beer to have a soapy smell and taste. Took me a couple of brews to work out the cause.

 

[clintonforster]

How are you filling your brew vessels with water?

I once had a similar problem. I was filling my HLT with a food grade hose from the tap. But I would just coil the hose up at EOB and sit on the shelf. A month later when I brewed again I connected the hose up but didnt flush it out. The water sitting inside the hose had gone manky and caused my beer to have a soapy smell and taste. Took me a couple of brews to work out the cause.

I'm using store bought water. but thanks for the advice.

 

[danestead]

Is your starsan mixed up at the correct ratio? 1.6mL per litre of water?

 

[clintonforster]

Is your starsan mixed up at the correct ratio? 1.6mL per litre of water?

yep, i use a measuring syringe! lol

 

[buckerooni]

this is a good thread for me, my first BIAB tasted good on the first few days but is tasting worse with a similar symptoms to this post.

I had loads of trub that was present through FV and CC. Also used both pink napisan and sodium percarb for the initial clean (but not used together) of some old kegs I acquired.

next brew: will remove break material, minimise trub transfer to FV (got an elbow in the urn now and hopefully some better whirlpool technique) and switch to just percarb and hot water rinse before starsan-ing equipment.

 

[manticle]

I know where you buy the hoses from but from what material are they constructed?

 

[manticle]

Final question - is there a common hop being used to dry hop and have you tried making beer without dry hopping at all?