Brew San - A No Rinse Sanitiser?

[mattorx]

Hi All,

I decided to step up from sodium metabisulphite and buy a fast acting "no rinse" sanitiser that doesn't rely on drying. So I ended up buying the Brewer's Choice sanitiser "Brew San" which had approximately the same ingredients and dosage rate as Star San:
Brew San: phosphoric acid and alkylbenzene sulphonic acid
Star San: phosphoric acid and dodecylbenzene sulphonic acid

However, upon reading the Brew San directions a bit more closely (well, it was rather obvious) it said the you should rinse after use... which for obvious reasons I want to avoid. Is it actually a no rinse sanitiser (contrary to the directions)? Has anyone used or know this sanitiser?

The Brewer's Choice website also says the following about acid sanitisers which makes it confusing as to whether its "Brew San" product is "no rinse" (well, apart from the directions on the bottle):
"Acid sanitisers such as Star San are the Brewing Industry standard. A mixture of Phosphoric Acid and a suphonic acid produces a product that is not affected by how many micor-organisms it has to eat through. It requires only 30 seconds contact and does not need rinsing. Brewers Choice Brew San is a low foam Acid Sanitiser. It is biodegradable and only requires 5mls per litre."

As I'm bottling a brew tonight, any comments, thoughts, experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Matt.

 

[stux]

Starsan is 1.5ml/L

I don't know what They've diluted the Brewsan to, but if you made starsan up at 5ml/l it wouldn't be no rinse

Moral of the story I guess is use iodophor or starsan

 

[Yob]

As I'm bottling a brew tonight, any comments, thoughts, experiences would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Matt.

Firstly welcome to the forum...

I bought one of these about 12 months ago and have never used it, I was also disturbed by the ambiguous nature of the instructions... bought a bottle of Starsan and have never looked back..

the other still sits quietly gathering dust

sorry I cant be of more help than that mate.

Yob

 

[mattorx]

Firstly welcome to the forum...

I bought one of these about 12 months ago and have never used it, I was also disturbed by the ambiguous nature of the instructions... bought a bottle of Starsan and have never looked back..

the other still sits quietly gathering dust

sorry I cant be of more help than that mate.

Yob

Thanks Yob. I've been hiding in the background for a few months but definitely benefiting from the knowledge on the forum and in the articles.

Thanks also for the quick reply. Agree, the instructions are quite ambiguous. I've actually just emailed Brew's Choice to ask above question too. I'll post the response when I get it.

After a bit more google research it seems that Brew San contains exactly the same chemicals as Star San, where the following are synonyms for the same chemical:
Linear alkylbenzene sulfonic acid
Dodecylbenzene Sulfonic Acid (Strait Chain) - in Star San mentioned on the Basic Brewing Radio podcast 29/3/2007
Alkylbenzene sulphonate - on Brew San ingredients

Not sure of the Brew San relative concentrations though... hopefully I'll get an informative response. On a side note, apparently for Star San to be effective it needs to have a pH less than 3 or 3.5. I wish I had a pH meter or pH strips to test the Brew San product..

Cheers,

Matt.

 

[Yob]

Thanks Yob. I've been hiding in the background for a few months but definitely benefiting from the knowledge on the forum and in the articles.

Thanks also for the quick reply. Agree, the instructions are quite ambiguous. I've actually just emailed Brew's Choice to ask above question too. I'll post the response when I get it.

After a bit more google research it seems that Brew San contains exactly the same chemicals as Star San, where the following are synonyms for the same chemical:
Linear alkylbenzene sulfonic acid
Dodecylbenzene Sulfonic Acid (Strait Chain) - in Star San mentioned on the Basic Brewing Radio podcast 29/3/2007
Alkylbenzene sulphonate - on Brew San ingredients

Not sure of the Brew San relative concentrations though... hopefully I'll get an informative response. On a side note, apparently for Star San to be effective it needs to have a pH less than 3 or 3.5. I wish I had a pH meter or pH strips to test the Brew San product..

Cheers,

Matt.

If you havnt already, have a listen to this LINK from HERE

Ive been working my way through them and rekon it's awesome... must have listened to the starsan one 3 or 4 times now

 

[mattorx]

If you havnt already, have a listen to this LINK from HERE

Ive been working my way through them and rekon it's awesome... must have listened to the starsan one 3 or 4 times now

Thanks for the link Yob. A very interesting listen. Need to listen to the other half later today.

I got a quick response yesterday from David of Brewer's Choice. He's on holidays so couldn't give me the full details. However, apparently Brewer's Choice recently went to the chemical supplier and it was confirmed that "Brew San" is actually a "no rinse" sanitiser and is meant to be exactly the same as Star San. The label should be updated soon. I'm a little worried about the dosage rates though (as Stux highlighted) but I'll wait until David is back from hols to get, and then pass on, a full update.

Cheers,

Matt.

 

[Brewers Choice]

Hi and apologies for the tardiness of my reply. In regards to the "rinse" and dilution aspects of our Brew San - When we first brought this product to market, we chose this product due to it having a very similar chemical composition to Starsan. In fact, we tasked local companies (and their in-house chemists) to provide a similar product to Starsan. We happily acknowledge Starsan is best practice for brewers, but unfortunately, it is not an Australian product and is expensive due to the costs of importing it.

Besides having a similar chemical composition, we requested the sanitiser be no-rinse, which proved to be a little more difficult. The original feedback on this product was "that to be safe you should probably rinse it" - the chemist involved was not prepared to take a stand on it. So to ensure we did not wind up ruining a bunch of beer, we included the original rinsing instructions.

We have followed this up further and finally got a definitive answer - rinsing is not necessary, however you should ensure that the product has had the opportunity to drain well so there is no pooling of sanitiser in your vessel. You will see in the next couple of weeks a new label on our Brew San bottles to this effect. The chemist also covered the pH aspect of the sanitiser and considered it correct for this purpose. The product is bottled at its original strength and has not been diluted, as adding water will render the sanitiser less stable and it will deteriorate over time.

It is a bugger that the Brew San had to go out with the original "Rinsing" labels, but we wanted to make sure that we did not ruin anyone's beer before we had definitive advice that it was in fact a no-rinse sanitiser. This is the price of bringing a new product to market!

Hope this clears things up. Cheers David

 

[Yob]

We have followed this up further and finally got a definitive answer - rinsing is not necessary, however you should ensure that the product has had the opportunity to drain well so there is no pooling of sanitiser in your vessel. You will see in the next couple of weeks a new label on our Brew San bottles to this effect. The chemist also covered the pH aspect of the sanitiser and considered it correct for this purpose. The product is bottled at its original strength and has not been diluted, as adding water will render the sanitiser less stable and it will deteriorate over time.

This is the price of bringing a new product to market!

David

Cheers for that David, that is a very open and honest summery of your product and the ongoing research that you have put into it, the clarity is commendable, refreshing even.

one question though, when you suggest no pooling, is this to mean that it should essentially be drip dried or just to a no drip kind of level? I personally am a star sinner but am intersted none the less.

another question... was it the same chemist you got to finally put his knackers on the block?

Yob

 

[Brewers Choice]

For drying, the drier the better. But at least turn it upside down and leave it until you have done the rest of your brewing. And no, not the same chemist. Tracked down someone that really knew what he was talking about, and also knew something about brewing!

 

[peterlonz]

I am unsure how old my Brew San is but I considered it an equivalent (to Star San) at significantly lower price.
Apart from somewhat ambiguous instructions on the label, the label has another fault - it's not waterproof & already after just a few uses it can barely be read.
Regarding rinsing, well only the brave forego a decent rinse & upside down dry. It's easy enough & dead safe. I don't mean totally dry just not drippingg wet !
Interestingly I don't recall Star San suggesting a drip dry might be best practice, if the stuff is almost identical they should be questioned on this point.
OTOH for those who may be interested: I have washed kegs for years using only boiling tap water followed by a generous (2 Litre) rinse with filtered tap water & then an upside down drip dry. Zero problems!
BTW the hot water raises the internal pressure sufficient to allow that same water to blow out the dip tube cleaning what otherwise might be a hard to sanitise area. A short length of tube fitted to an outlet connection allows this to be a dead simple routine.