New to home brewing and a little confused

[TonyF]

Hi folks!

Finally decided to go purchase a Morgan's home brew kit from the LHBS during the week and very excited to be popping my cherry this weekend!

When at the LHBS, I decided to pick up some sanitiser for cleaning out the gear/bottles etc and an extra can (Morgan's Golden Sheaf Wheat) for a second batch. The guy suggested that using a no-rinse sanitiser could, although unlikely, affect the final taste of the beer so decided to go with a rinse sanitiser.

After doing a fair bit of reading and viewing of videos I'm now concerned that what I've been sold is actually a "cleaner" and not a sanitiser (even though the product has the word "Steri" in and it's even sold on their website as a STERILISER). The product says that it contains trisodium phosphate which seems to only be a SANITISER if it is CTSP (chlorinated trisodium phosphate). I do have the no-rinse sanitiser from the kit, though I was going to user that for spraying the hydrometer and tap each time after testing the SG.

Some questions I have:
1) Would any of you wise folks know if this TSP is good for sanitising or is it simply a cleaner and I need to get some more sanitiser?
2) Will I be fine if I sanitise my bottles at the same time leave them on the drying tree, capping them after they dry and then using them when bottling time comes?
3) I have a pot in which I can boil the 2L required to mix up the liquid malt extract and another 7L pot (usually used for spag bog sauce) in which I can boil water the night before and leave to cool to add to the fermenter the next day. Does anybody know if the water in the southern suburbs of Perth is ok to add directly to the fementer (I live around the Canning Vale area)? To me it does taste quite chlorinated so I'm guessing no.
4) How do people in Perth go with making beer at this time of year? I've been holding off with the spate of 40+C degree days we've been having. I read throwing a wet towel around the fermenter is enough to keep the fermenting temperature down. Does this sound ok?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice given!

Cheers,
Tony

 

[mr_wibble]

I am fairly sure the "pink stuff" - chlorinated trisodium-phosphate needs to be well rinsed off.
So as long as what you rise it off with is sanitised (say boiling water), then that should be OK.
BTW: Things don't need to be sterile, just sanitised.

You can wash and rise your bottles, and then sanitise them by heating them in an oven for a while - 170C for an hour

A lot of people here, me included, use "StarSan" as a no-rinse sanitiser. It's easy and convenient. Although some people dislike it too.

(I can't answer Perth water questions)

Temperature control is one of the critical aspects of fermentation.
Ideally you do not want to go over 20C, and it's best kept 18-19C.

Many home brewers use a fridge with a secondary temperature controller built in. Or wait for the right time of year.
40C is a big ask of a wet t-shirt, but one method is to sit your fermenter in water (like 1/2 a plastic barrel, bathtub, laundry sink, etc.) and put a cloth over it (e.g.: a t-shirt) so the water wicks up and evaporates, providing cooling. I have also frozen 2 litre bottles of water, and put these in with the fermenter to maintain lower temperatures. But you need a few spare to rotate them. (note: in the water with the fermenter, not inside the fermenter with the wort).

Of course if you have an air-conditioned or naturally cool house, you're mostly there already.

 

[TonyF]

Thanks for all that information Mr Wibble, very much appreciated.

I had read that the "pink stuff" had to be rinsed off... though the extra "sanitiser" I was sold isn't pink (they sell that too) but white and says it contains TSP not CTSP which is where my concern is that it's simply a cleaner and not a sanitiser as it's not chlorinated (yet they market it as a "steriliser"?)

It does seem that this Star-San sure is really popular amongst the home brew crowd. In fact it seems that just about everybody uses some form of no-rinse sanitiser so I might look at getting some Star-San for my next batch (I have enough no-rinse sanitiser that comes with the Morgan's kit to get me by this time around).

With regard tot he bottles I should of been a bit clearer about them being the PET bottles that come in the home brew kit. I was thinking of sanitising them with everything else before doing the fermentation and wondered will they be ok for the next 5 days or so before I bottle?

I think I might have to go with the a tub of water and bottles of ice as even though I waited for the temps to drop it appears we're going to be getting some more 38C days next week and the best I can get the evap air cooler to cool the house down to is about 22.

Thanks once again for all the information and suggestions!

Cheers,
Tony

 

[Spookism]

If you get into your brewing, waiting for Perth weather to match up for ideal temperatures would be frustrating as.

If you can get a decent 2nd hand fridge for $100- and spend about $30- on a temp controller you'll be able to make beer all year round.

 

[TonyF]

Have just been looking into that Spookism .... only problem is... I want to start NOW! not when I find a fridge (I don't even know if i can wait the 15-20 days the instructions indicate the process will take)

Do most people go for a bar fridge or full sized?

 

[wobbly]

In Canning Vale you will most likely be on the Thompson's Lake water distribution network. If you get in touch with [email protected] you will be able to get details of your water

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[TonyF]

Awesome, thanks for that Wobbly! Technically I'm in Thornlie, but we're actually closer to Canning Vale than the major part of Thornlie (I could probably pee into Canning Vale from where I am ). I'll contact Jeff Webber and see what he can tell me Thanks again!

 

[wobbly]

TonyF

If you are on the above supply as I am them you will find that your water has a pH of around 8.0 and will be high in Chloride at around 165ppm (could be 220ppm) and high in Sodium at about 105ppm (could be 140ppm)

None of this should impact on you doing a Kit beer but just keep in the back of your mind that when the Kit manufacturer vacuum reduce the Kit they removed "pure water" and you will now be adding back water that may be higher in brewing salts than they were targeting.

Don't concern yourself with this on for your first few brews just something to read up on and study/understand if when you decide to progress further

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[superstock]

If your are worried about your water, go to office works and buy their 12L bottled water and get a free PET fermenter, $10 for 12L here in Brisbane. Or put your tap water into a clean container and let it stand overnight, that will get rid of most of the chlorine.

 

[TonyF]

Thanks again Wobbly, certainly very interesting and something I'll have to look further into. I never really thought about the fact that the water that was removed isn't the same as what we are replacing it with. I might just do what superstock has suggested and put some water in a clean container overnight.

I guess my bigger problem will be temperature control with the hotter days coming up. Was initially planning on throwing it in the workshop but I'd say that won't work too well with the 3 days of 38 we have forecasted for next week. Dunno whether to just go with what I have for this first batch or run out now and get a tub for a water bath. If I do this, I'm gathering I'll have to drop sanitiser in the water so that "unclean" water doesn't get into the tap?

Thanks for your suggestions superstock. I think I'll have to try chase up a 14L container to hold the water (I've got a 7L pot I was going to use anyway... now just need another 14L to make up the 23L with the boiling water) :unsure:

 

[wobbly]

A couple of alternative to keep your fermenter cooler.
If you have one place it in your bath half filled with water and don't get too hung up about the need to sanitise all that bath water just spray the tap out with santister before you open it. If the bath isn't an option what about the laundry sink. With both of these options you could reduce the bath/trough water temperature by placing a couple of 2 or 4 lt bottles of frozen water in and change twice daily. A bath or trough half full of water is quite a large heat sink and will not heat up/cool down very quickly
If Bath and Laundry trough aren't a viable option you could always sit the fermenter on a cement floor in a cool place away from any warm/hot drafts and just drape a wet towel over the fermenter (look up Coolgardie Cooler) and re-wet this a couple of times for the first few days when the temperature will have most impact on your brew after about the third or fourth day temperature control isn't "so" critical

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[wobbly]

I think I'll have to try chase up a 14L container to hold the water (I've got a 7L pot I was going to use anyway... now just need another 14L to make up the 23L with the boiling water) :unsure:

Why are you going to boil your water? A lot/most that start out brewing with kits just use the tap water without boiling. If it's chlorine reduction you are after you could do a couple of things.
Take your required water out of the hot water system and leave out over night to cool. That way the chlorine will dissipate and in any event just leaving tap water exposed to the atmosphere over night will achieve the same result
If you need to get ride of Chloramines then you could add half a Campden to your make up water You could get these from the Chemist or HBS

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[superstock]

This is how I started out a couple of years ago. What you don't see is that the barrow has a brick under the wheel to get the bed level, the tray was almost full of water and there was a pedestal fan blowing on it. Not a bad temp reduction, but humidity has a big effect.

 

[TonyF]

Hey sorry Wobbly my post about the boiling water wasn't clear.. the boiled water is the 2L of "very hot water" on the instructions required to initially dissolve the LME and Morgan's Body Blend.

I'll pbly have to make a run to Bunnings to get a big enough container to hold the required amount (21L) of water overnight (I'm gathering it has to be sanitised as well).


superstock ... I love that setup... there's just something so home brew about that hehehe! Was the tap on your fermenter sitting in there?

 

[contrarian]

This all sounds like a lot of trouble, pop back to the brew shop, buy any saison yeast and ferment at ambient temperature! Should turn out fine

 

[TonyF]

LOL... That would be giving in to Mother Nature! I can't let that nasty B win!

Though my friend and I both don't mind a nice saison ... so i'm sure that'll be on the cards at some point hahaha

 

[wobbly]

I'll pbly have to make a run to Bunnings to get a big enough container to hold the required amount (21L) of water overnight (I'm gathering it has to be sanitised as well).

Not necessary to sanitise the tap water just try and get rid of the chlorine and chloramine as indicated above.

If you have a couple of plastic buckets they would do to hold your water over night.

A 2lt electric kettle and 2lt jug/container of some sort will suffice to mix the tin of "Goo"

Warm the tin in a pot of hot water on the stove but dont boil. Put 1lt of boiling water into your jug or other container and poor about half of the Kit can into it and mix well top up to 2lt with more hot water. Tip this into fermenter. Now add about 1lt or what ever the kit tin will hold of hot water and mix and then tip into your 2lt container and rinse the kit tin with more hot water and tip into 2lt container mix well and add to fermenter
Top up the fermenter with you de-clorinated water hot/cold to try and get your temperature to below 20C. You might need to have a few lts of cold water from the fridge on hand
Once you have topped up to your 23lt then add the brewing sugars and give it all a good stir and then add the yeast. Now you can just sprinkel the yest on top of the wort or rehydrate it (check out how to on this forum) many will say it is unnecessary to rehydrate but I'm a believer

Happy Brewing

Wobbly
.

 

[TonyF]

Thanks so much for all the info Wobbly you're an absolute champ! :icon_cheers:

i picked up a 20L plastic jerry can from Bunnings which I'll sanitise later with everything else, i'll put 20L of water into my fermenter overnight (to let the chlorine out) which I'll transfer to the jerry can in the morning (and whack some in the fridge as my "cold water backup") then I'll go with your great instructions from there.

I picked up a large'ish tub which i can use to keep the temperatures down if it gets too hot during the week.

Picked up some Star-San from the LHBS. While there picked up some Wheat Malt. The nice bloke there told me to add this to my Sheaf Wheat malt extract with half of my LDME and throw the other half of my LDME and the Morgan's Body Blend into the Lager malt extract (the one I'll be attempting tomorrow).

Thanks again to you all for the invaluable information!

:beerbang:

contrarian.. I'm sure in the not too distant future there'll be a saison in there.. any idea where I can get a nice recipe that uses a can of liquid malt extract (I'm gonna stick with those until I have a few under my belt)?

 

[wobbly]

Just make sure that the jerry can is suitable for storing potable water that is it is HDPE

If you are looking for a large SS pot then Big W have these https://www.bigw.com.au/product/smart-value-19-litre-stock-pot/p/WCC100000000011544/ for $20

When mixing your Star San follow the directions for the strength. For a while I was mixing it too strong (more is better belief!!) but if it's too strong it is no longer a "No Rinse Sanitiser" The instructions are in US measurements and are 1 oz per 5 US Gallons = 28mls per 19lts = 1.5mils per 1lt. If you don't have a measuring devise that will measure that small a dose go to the chemist and get hold of one of those syringes for measuring small doses of medicine for small children

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[superstock]

superstock ... I love that setup... there's just something so home brew about that hehehe! Was the tap on your fermenter sitting in there?

No tap, just a bung. Also no ice was used to achieve those temps, so it could be driven lower.