Brew Always Tastes Like Homebrew

[bconnery]

Ok...

Thanks for all your help guys. A few key points:
I always keep my kit clean
I never use table sugar. If I ever use anything thats not a brew enhancer or wet malt, I use dextrose
I always use quality ingrediance (except for this brew which called for a coopers lager green can... see how that goes)

The amount of info has been overwhelming. So i just pick out what i understand and can use... The key points I have picked up from this site and the LHBS is:
(and correct me if im wrong)
*asside from the basics, keep your kit clean, never use caster sugar, things of that nature
*Keep temperature low and constant
*Use hops to get a better taste and aroma
*Switch fermenters when brew stops bubbling, dead yeast can add an undesirable flavour

There where another few key points... i think they where:
*use AG
*use AG
*Use AG

... but until i get some more expirience, ill keep using K&K... You guys are right, I'm very novice at this but I plan on getting better.
Thanks to all that helped. I shall post results of my whitestag copy.

One more thing... It seems a few of you that have posted, sound like you havent tryed a "tailor made" beer from a shop recently. I suggest you go out, and get even just one. The taste may be different, supprising, and give you something to aim towards. After all diversity wasnt just an old wooden ship. A few newish beers on the market I would recommend.

*Sail and anchor dry dock - W.A beer
*Coopers 62 Pilsner - Incredibly smooth
*stienlager Pure - N.Z beer, dunno what there doing there but pretty smooth, tasty little number

Cheers again guys.
- Liam

Nothing wrong with table sugar. The idea that you should never use it is a bit of a homebrewing myth, probably driven by it generally associated with beers fermented at high temps with the wrong yeast.

As for the AG thing, look it is great. It makes great beer, IF it is done right. You can make bad AG beer very easily. Good process will make good beer. I absolutely love AG but I made some of my best beers with extract, and some of them I still haven't managed to replicate properly with AG.

This seems as good a time as any to post a link to my guide to extract brewing I posted a few years ago. It really is easy and a great way to make very good beers.
I used this method for a number of years and I believe it works well.

 

[Kevman]

I think there is a difference when using kits on what style you are doing.

The lighter syles such as lagers and pale ales show up the imperfections in either brewing techniques or the kit a lot more than for some of the darker beers such as dark ales, porters or stouts.

I've found no reason to switch to all grain as I prefer the darker style of beers and ales. I do the odd lager but they don't seem to come out as good as my ales.

For you liam, it may pay to move to an all-grain setup, obviously dependent on cost, space and time, to get the taste you desire. For me, kits and bits suit my purpose as I don't have that "home brew" taste due to the beers that I make are a lot more malty and have numerous other flavours. I think its horses for courses.

 

[TidalPete]

No more advice or help from me on this forum anymore until things happen to bring this great forum back to the way it once was.
K&C brewers who can't see the benefits of stepping up to liquid malt & hops, to (Shudder) BIAB, to AG are deluding themselves.

TP

 

[ballzac]

One more thing... It seems a few of you that have posted, sound like you havent tryed a "tailor made" beer from a shop recently. I suggest you go out, and get even just one. The taste may be different, supprising, and give you something to aim towards. After all diversity wasnt just an old wooden ship. A few newish beers on the market I would recommend.

I think most people here just don't like beers that have little flavour. A beer marketed as "extra dry" or what-not, is not likely to tickle the fancy of most people in the homebrewing community I would expect. After you have been brewing for a while, you will become more familiar with the ingredients involved and the different flavours that can be achieved and will probably begin to shy away from the more bland pale lagers.

I'm not meaning to be snobby about it. Everyone's entitled to enjoy whatever beer they like, and these pale lagers are undeniably well made. I buy "tailor made" beers on a regular basis. Last weekend I picked up a Lindeman's Framboise, a Chantillon Guauze, an Innis and Gunn triple aged beer, an Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier Urbock, and yes, a pale lager (DAB). The Chantillon was a bit full on for my taste, but had a beautiful parmesan flavour :lol:

If I enjoy a Steinlager pure more than I enjoyed any of those beers, I will eat my hat

 

[bradsbrew]

The amount of info has been overwhelming. So i just pick out what i understand and can use... The key points I have picked up from this site and the LHBS is:
*asside from the basics, keep your kit clean, never use caster sugar
*Keep temperature low and constant
*Use hops to get a better taste and aroma
*Switch fermenters when brew stops bubbling, dead yeast can add an undesirable flavour

IMO, I think you have mistook the information
1. White sugar, table sugar, castor sugar. Can be used with your kit in addition to some dry malt extract. If you are thinking your beers are turning out a bit sweet try adding some sugar. thing is sugar can be used.

2. Yes you need to keep the fermentation temp down but this is relative to the style of beer and more importantly the yeast that you are using. Also if you brew at the lower end say 17 for an ale yeast you can bring this up to 20/22 at the end of fermentation to help the yeast finish off. This is very brief on the subject of yeast/ferment/temp. Have a search if you are not sure on the info you read PM one a couple of the brewers such as screwy,Ross,Bconnery etc and they will put you in the right direction.

3. DO NOT RELY ON THE BUBBLING. TAKE HYDROMETER READINGS THEY ARE THE INDICATOR OF WETHER YOUR BEER IS FINISHED FERMENTING. IF YOU TAKE IT OFF THE YEAST TOO EARLY YOUR BEER MAY END UP SWEET :huh: OR BLOW THE BOTTLES UP. When it is finished fermenting you dont have to switch fermenters, in fact I never do that. But I do drop the temperature to about 4 for a few days sometimes longer.

Cheers Brad

 

[bradsbrew]

No more advice or help from me on this forum anymore until things happen to bring this great forum back to the way it once was.
K&C brewers who can't see the benefits of stepping up to liquid malt & hops, to (Shudder) BIAB, to AG are deluding themselves.

TP

C'mon Pete, He's already said he's getting his head around the important things first. No point going extract or AG if he doesnt understand yeast and ferment and ingredients.

Did you put your Gstring on back to front again Mr grumpy .

Brad

 

[ballzac]

IMO, I think you have mistook the information
1. White sugar, table sugar, castor sugar. Can be used with your kit in addition to some dry malt extract. If you are thinking your beers are turning out a bit sweet try adding some sugar. thing is sugar can be used.

Just curious what the pros for using sucrose over dextrose are, apart from cost? I would be thinking that using sucrose would risk introducing unwanted flavours in a style that is so low in other flavours. Dextrose is highly fermentable, and seems like the most logical choice to me, unless cost is a serious issue.

 

[kelbygreen]

beaker I would also suggest try this one to.

25lt batch,
2.5kg LDME
700g dextrose
POR 23g @ 45 min
POR 14g @ 15 min

I used hop pellets but was told to use flowers as they are better but ross was sold out (have 180g comming next week) also I used 2.75kg malt and .5 dex was a tad sweet why I changed the list a bit as should be more ballanced.

Your aim is around 1.048 OG and 26IBU. Got this off Tony and tried his aussie pale ale was like new but what it should be like . although he done AG version i was trying to make a extract one close but it was a tad sweet

 

[matt.barrenger]

beaker I would also suggest try this one to.

25lt batch,
2.5kg LDME
700g dextrose
POR 23g @ 45 min
POR 14g @ 15 min

I used hop pellets but was told to use flowers as they are better but ross was sold out (have 180g comming next week) also I used 2.75kg malt and .5 dex was a tad sweet why I changed the list a bit as should be more ballanced.

Your aim is around 1.048 OG and 26IBU. Got this off Tony and tried his aussie pale ale was like new but what it should be like . although he done AG version i was trying to make a extract one close but it was a tad sweet

hey kelby green,

Many thanks - a few questions - if you use hop flowers do you have to vary the amount (weight) to use?

what % AA are the hops?

Cheers

 

[matt.barrenger]

hey kelby green,

Many thanks - a few questions - if you use hop flowers do you have to vary the amount (weight) to use?

what % AA are the hops?

Cheers

................................and also

I forgot

the 45 mins - that means 45 minutes into a 60 minute boil add the hops? or does it mean boil the hops for 45 minutes?

 

[felten]

@ the OP, I was just listening to the CYBI belgian golden ale show and it mentions that you can actually do a mini mash with your extract and a pound or so of malt (or high enzyme malt like galaxy) and the enzymes in the malt will start to break down the sugars in the extract, just like a normal mash, resulting in a drier finish.

That recipe uses 3.8kg of light extract and 1.35kg of white sugar too btw.

 

[jakub76]

45 minute addition means boil for 45 so you'd add it 15 minutes into a 60 minute boil.

................................and also

I forgot

the 45 mins - that means 45 minutes into a 60 minute boil add the hops? or does it mean boil the hops for 45 minutes?

 

[paulwolf350]

I'm a little confused. A lot of people use unscented bleach as a sanitiser (including myself and including Screwtop) - you just need to make super sure that it's either rinsed properly (I use boiling water followed by sodium met, followed by cold water followed by starsan) or supposedly used in no rinse proportions (which I don't trust but the guy from star san does).

Sorry if I've misunderstood what you meant.

Rito then Bleach away

i will keep my thoughts to myself
Paul

 

[Kevman]

No more advice or help from me on this forum anymore until things happen to bring this great forum back to the way it once was.
K&C brewers who can't see the benefits of stepping up to liquid malt & hops, to (Shudder) BIAB, to AG are deluding themselves.

TP

Just more home brew snobbery on this website.

Perhaps we don't actually want your advice which seems to be "move to AG". K&K/K&B brewers get this one forum called Kits and Extracts while the AG brewers have a few other forums (AG and Partials, Beginner Partials/AG) to talk about how good AG is.

 

[bconnery]

Well if you are rinsing if off, I believe you are wasting your time using it. You could use it as a cleaner, but there are better cleaners around.
If you are using it to sanitise, then rinsing it off, the items are no longer sanitised and you would be better off Just using hot water.
Most of the beers, where the brewer used bleach, the taste comes out in the finished product


Manticle, if you are rinsing the bleach off, then using starsan, why use the bleach at all? Starsan is a guaranteed sanitiser with a known kill rate it will do the job all on its own, with no bleach flavour inparted to the finished product.

Acidifying bleach to make a no rinse sanitiser is a no no, because the resultant gas coming off is "mustard gas" the one they use to KILL people, think of that when you are splashing your fermenter

Sorry if you guys think i am a nut, but a quality no rinse sanitiser is much better advice to a newb

Dumb the bleach mate your brewing will be better for it

Paul

The gas is only an issue if you mix the vinegar and the bleach directly, not if you dilute the bleach to the correct concentration first. The information I read warned against this and I followed it accordingly and am still alive.
Again, there's a lot of information around about how to correctly do this.

I agree that bleach followed by a rinse followed by starsan seems a waste. I use starsan myself now and have had no issues with it, but bleach CAN be used as a no rinse sanitiser if used correctly.
If you don't want to then that's fine.

If bleach is being tasted in the finished product then the brewer isn't using it correctly.
I can honestly say that no judge, homebrewer or other taster of my beer ever commented on the bleach taste present in my beer.

 

[paulwolf350]

I can honestly say that no judge, homebrewer or other taster of my beer ever commented on the bleach taste present in my beer.

this is why I am supprised to see you guys promoting it.




I will refrain from further commment

Paul

 

[felten]

Well according to Wikipedia(FWIW), bleach and hydrochloric acid will release chlorine gas (mustard gas is different); however bleach and acetic acid will release something else, scroll down to the reactions and bleaching section.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_hypochlorite It also gives you an idea of what it breaks down into.

I'm also in the boat of having used acidified bleach with no problems, but only once or twice before upgrading to starsan. Each to his own I guess.

 

[wynnum1]

If the kit beer is too sweet add more water and more dextrose to get required alcohol content .3 extra litres of water can make a big difference to taste .Adding fresh hops also helps .Also brewing at cooler temperatures more yeast may be needed then is supplied with kit buy two cans and use both yeasts in first brew and use yeast from first brew to ferment second brew

 

[manticle]

Hi Paul,

The reason I use chlorine then rinse, then use boiling water then rinse, then use sodium met, then rinse THEN use starsan (no rinse) is because I had a spate of infections in Summer that was incredibly depressing.

I have also experienced chlorephenols in a beer which were horrible - hence the use of the boiling water and the sodium met (with added sanitising properties).

I have become paranoid about both bleach flavours AND infection so I do my utmost to reduce the chance of either. I do know, firsthand what you mean about the related flavours - just thought it was a bit strange to say that use of chlorine is bad advice when it seems quite commonly used - in both rinse and no rinse proportions. I myself wouldn't use the no rinse proportion but I'm not going to tell others they can't.

I'm not advising anyone to follow my nutso regime (cleaned first with sodium percarb and super hot water) unless they experience the very upsetting phenomenon of nursing several hard work AG brews to undrinkable infections. In most cases I would say a good clean with sodium percarb or similar and a no rinse should be enough. Hell even sodium met was fine when I used that exclusively. In my case I'd rather look like I'm wasting my time than throw out another 60+ litres of beer because it tastes like arse.

Apologies to the OP for the OT

 

[matt.barrenger]

................................and also

I forgot

the 45 mins - that means 45 minutes into a 60 minute boil add the hops? or does it mean boil the hops for 45 minutes?

LDME - is that light dried malt extract? I get confused between LME, LDME, DME !!!