Brew Always Tastes Like Homebrew

[Liam dee]

Hey guys,

I have brewed a few brews now.

European lager (coopers) - quite nice, esspecially around the 2 month mark
Ceveza (coopers) - Nice at first, got sick of it later, bit sweet
Draught (Thomas Coopers + can of malt) - getting better, but a bit flat - still had the taste
Canadian blonde (coopers) - much the same as Ceveza but with more bitter finish

Just layed down:
Pilsner (Thomas coopers) Used 500g Light dry Malt + 350g Dextrose. - waiting for results.

Now to the question (sort of a double banger)

1. My brew always has a "homebrew" finish. Its always sweetish, and I always used the spec ingrediance. I think about a few beers I enjoy, for instance: Tooheys New, and Carlton dry: If I was to drink those 2 one after the other, I would'nt sit back and go, "yep, they used the same brewing process".

How ever, when I have ANY of my homebrew after each other, for instance a Draught and a Ceveza, sure they taste completely different, but in that second after swallowing (and until the next mouthful) I just taste homebrew.

My next brew, Im going to try a tooheys whitestag (any suggestions would be great too.) This will include the addition of the dry enzyme. If any of you know, if this takes the "homebrew" sweetish finish off, let me know. Otherwise I will post my conclusions.

Its a long post, and the questions may be hard to find but any help will be greatly appreciated.

Just to reitterate the questions:
1. How do I get rid of the "homebrew" sweetish taste
2. How do I make a Whitestag Immitation (now that tooheys lowered the content to 4.4%)

Cheers and good beers

 

[boobiedazzler]

1. More hops
2. Use better yeast
2. Lower fermentation temperature
3. Use less (or no) sugar
4. Bottle Condition for 3 months

 

[Cocko]

+1 Boobiedazzler's points

Also,

Look into Partials, heaps of info on this site. Basically using a bit of grain to help with flavour!

But adding hops to a Kit will do a lot for your beer and is a simple addition to your process!

:icon_cheers:

 

[seemax]

Kits tend to have that twang... usually due to the kit yeast fermented at undesirable (and fluctuating) temperatures.

Most crappy aussie beer (tooheys new, VB, etc) are fermented with lager yeasts creating that dry crisp finish.

For that you'll need a decent yeast and something to keep it at 10C!

 

[bconnery]

1. More hops
2. Use better yeast
2. Lower fermentation temperature
3. Use less (or no) sugar
4. Bottle Condition for 3 months

There's some excellent advice here that I think gets to the heart of your issue, but I'd expand / disagree on a couple of points.

1. Yes. But this will help with the initial flavour, it won't necessarily remove the 'homebrew' taste.
2. Yes. I assume from your post you are using whatever comes with the kit, which can be hit or miss. Fine if you've gotten a kit that does have a good yeast, and you ferment at the right temperature range.
2. (again ...) Lower fermentation temperature. Yes, and yes again. OP you didn't say what your temps were like but you are doing mostly lager type kits which will benefit from lower and slower fermentation.
3. Actually sugar will help dry out your beers, adding alcohol but also helping to bring down the FG a little from the normally higher levels kits can give.
4. Ideally perhaps but bottle conditioning will only smooth out some edges. If faults are a part of the base beer bottle aging isn't necessarily going to fix them. Won't hurt in the case of what it sounds like is happening for you.

Of course it isn't really clear what you mean by a homebrew taste but in my opinion the classic "homebrew" taste generally comes from a number of factors. I found that kits do tend to finish higher at times, probably to do with the method of their preparation, I'm not sure. Perhaps it's also the amount of yeast that is sometimes thrown at them, as kit yeasts can be smaller in size.
Temperature plays a big part. That slightly fruity homebrew aspect could easily be a result of higher temps, especially if you are doing lager kits, warm, with an ale yeast, and then wanting something like tooheys.

Can't help on the whitestag though...

 

[Screwtop]

3. Use less (or no) sugar

:blink:

+1 Boobiedazzler's points

:blink:


Lucky for you an experienced brewer quotes:

3. Actually sugar will help dry out your beers, adding alcohol but also helping to bring down the FG a little from the normally higher levels kits can give.

 

[michaelcocks]

Common theme here:
coopers ... Now don't get me wrong the coopers kits are Mongst the better ones... But you cannot get. Fresh grai. TAte from any kit brew ... You are alwYs tasting isohop !!!
They can produce a good beer if you replace the yeast and add some steeping grains

If you have to kit brew try one of the esb kits or the country bread wetpAks with some reL grIn steeped
you Re also probably uSing the coopers kit yeast... Change this ... If you have to use dry yeast use safale or nottinghAm
as others have noted watch your temperature and cleanliness
even better ( As it sounds like you are still a way of all grain) go try one of the fresh wort kits

keep at it ... You'll get there

btw the coopers malt extract (unhopped) makes an excellent base for all beers just try to get off the prehopped kits if you can and deffinatley stY away from the kit yeasts...as farad temp goes you should be able to find somewhere around 18c in your house at tuis time of year ... perfect for most ales..

 

[boobiedazzler]

OK smartass. Brew me a beer with one can of malt, 1kg sugar and 7 grams of generic yeast at 28 degrees, without adding any hops or spec grain and tell me its wonderful.

That shouldnt be a problem with all of your experience.

 

[Oatlands Brewer]

I my humble opinion your better off to step up to extract/partial brewing. cause Kit Twang will allways be kit twang.
Its a lot more satisfiying than kits and a much better product.

As has been said above fermentation temps make a huge difference to my brews i keep all my ales under 18/19 now and lagers at 10.

the other thing i found inproved my beers was not to be too keen to bottle, i wait until i hit a fg then leave it a few more days then cold condition it at 2/3 deg for another week

 

[manticle]

@boobiedazzler:

Settle down chief.

Not sure if you're referring to screwtop or bconnery (both experienced brewers) with the smartass comment but if you read between the lines - there was a basic agreement from bconnery with some qualifiers which were well explained.

Maybe Screwy explained with the aid of emoticons but the dogmatic malt purist route with extracts and kits can be misguided. Yes malt is great in a beer, what beer should be/is made from etc etc etc BUT - sugar used judiciously in certain styles (whether kit, extract or AG) can be a valuable ingredient. Extract beers in particular can struggle to attenuate properly and can be a bit cloying sweet. Sugar ( a bit, not a tonne) CAN help make things a little more balanced, all other things being equal. It's not a dirty ingredient in beer as so many people seem to suggest.

No-one said anything about brewing beer at 28 degrees. Also no-one suggested using 7 grams of kit yeast was a good idea. Bconnery expanded on your point by suggesting you use a better yeast but use it properly. Kit yeast is notoriously a bit more resistant to varied ferment conditions than some of the better dried yeasts so if you ARE going to brew at 28 you MIGHT be better brewing with coopers kit than with US05 etc etc. I think the basic point was - treat your yeast properly.

@ oatlands: People talk about kit twang and suggest it might be isohop. I'm not sure as I've found something I don't like with a lot of extract brews (mainly a one dimensionality and often an underattenuated sweetness that together screams extract at me). I've had a few good beers recently (both extract and kit) that tell me both can be done very well (and these beers were pale and lowly [if at all] hopped so no room for hiding behind the cheaty things). I think a good AG beer is the best there is but a good kit beer can still crap on an average AG beer. Good fermentation and yeast treatment is the key first and foremost. Everything else is just tweaking.

 

[Oatlands Brewer]

Awwwwww....Mant i wanna see Screwy arc up like a roman candle.....havent seen a decent fight on here for a while..... :blink: h34r:

 

[manticle]

I hate you

 

[manticle]

You shagged my dog

 

[manticle]

And forgot to leave a tip

 

[Oatlands Brewer]

Yeah but your dog liked it........

 

[Oatlands Brewer]

and you brew at 28deg...

 

[manticle]

I brew at whatever temp I like because I'm toughbrewer and my dog ate your cat anyway.




Sorry for OT.

I love eveybody and sugar is ok in beer if you know why you're adding it.

 

[ballzac]

We have to keep in mind what beers Liam Dee likes, because ultimately he is trying to brew a beer to suit his own taste.

Tooheys New, and Carlton dry

I think it would be difficult to emulate one of these brews without adding dextrose. These are lagers and as previously mentioned, a good lager yeast fermented at ~10 degrees and then cold conditioned at fridge temp or lower is ideal. However, I don't think anyone has mentioned yet that a neutral ale yeast can be used to good effect at lowish temperatures ~16C. US05 would probably be a good one to use.

No idea what kit yeasts are like these days as it's been years since I've used one, but buying yeast separately you know exactly what you're getting and what properties it will have. A lot of kits don't cost much more than a good yeast, so if they come with yeast included, it is unlikely to be top quality.

Someone mentioned isohop...I was under the impression that the megaswill breweries use isohop anyway, so I can't see how that would be the source of twang.

I remember reading somewhere (maybe John Palmer or something?) that extract twang is often from stale extract. Obviously wort (extract is just dehydrated wort) doesn't keep as well as finished beer, and I certainly find it plausible that using old extract could produce inferior beer.

 

[Cocko]

:blink:



:blink:


Lucky for you an experienced brewer quotes:

:blink:

 

[Nick JD]

I just taste homebrew.

Here's my take for better or worse. Let's start with an analogy: why doesn't my Nescafe Blend 43 taste like the Flat Whites at my local Italian Cafe?

They use real beans, freshly ground. You use beans that were ground, made into coffee and then evaporated and put in a can.

They use steam heated milk and very little water. You use lots of water and only a little bit of milk.

Making beer from stuff in cans is not making beer, it's making "homebrew". The very very best brewer's job if challenged to make the best K&K beer he can will alwas be an exercise in hiding those homebrew flavours. It can be done, sort of - it's more difficult than making real beer.

See, to make real beer - just like making real coffee - you have to have the ingredients that real beer is made from. Surprisingly, you can make a real mess of making real beer and still make something that tastes better than K&K.

Try your hands at a small AG brew - 3kg of grain, 30g of PoR hops, S189 yeast and some cheap gear will make Carlton. It's easy, seriously - and when you are drinking your delicious Carlton Clone the first thing that will enter you mind will be, "Shit, I can make any beer I damn well want now".