Braumeister NEXTGEN Build

[jwollmer]

Thanks Real beer for the link, that should help a lot. I know fabrication is expensivebt I had a bit of luck, I was at a Christmas party and my nephew is also a brewer so we were discussing my plans and he thought he could pull in some favors from friends at work to build the kettle. Keeping my fingers crossed!!!

I thought for sure I read in the thread that there was a resommended height to diameter ratio for the kettle, Tall and narrow as opposed to short and fat. Does anyone remember that? Was it height should be 2x diameter? Thinking about it taller means more head on the pump, not necessarily a good thing. When I have the sizes worked out I will run it by you experts here before I have it built.

Thanks
Jim

 

[lael]

Oh, that will have to do with the heating efficiency of the pot. I don't remember, but would guess a search on heating element / element sizing would help find those posts.

 

[jwollmer]

I took a stab at the kettle and malt pipe sizing using the spreadsheet. I think I have it in the green for all but the high gravity line. My question is on the Actual Fluidisation in Malt Pipe (L/Kg) column. I know the goal is around 3.65. less and you will get stuck mash, more and you will get wort fountains. I am ranging from 2.92 - 8.

If someone could review the spreadsheet attached and give me your thoughts. I am shooting for 2.5gal and 5gal batch sizes. Also I have allowed 3.8cm between malt pipe and kettle. Is that sufficient?

​

Thanks in advance,
Jim

View attachment Jims_Braumiser_Volume_Calculations.xls

 

[Superoo]

Just a note lads,
You can now design and price up your own custom control panel facia's at our website.

Just go to the 'brew stuff' category at www.eatonlaser.com.au

cheers,
Chris

 

[aamcle]

What are your thoughts on a removable centre rod? I'm using Stainless All Thread and could easily include a "Long Nut/Threaded Socket" at the bottom.

I would gain the ability to use a good size hop basket and have the flexibility to use the unit for other things.

ATB. Aamcle

 

[lukec]

Just a photo of my sparging a ESB. Getting about 80% effiency in every brew these days

 

[Edak]

80 mash efficiency? Or total into fermenter?

 

[Edak]

Also what are the extra bolt heads for low down on the malt pipe?

 

[tateg]

Hi guys
How high up the pot are you putting the tap?

Cheers

Edit: using a 50l pot

 

[real_beer]

Hi guys How high up the pot are you putting the tap? Cheers Edit: using a 50l pot

Not putting one on mine I'm just going to use an auto siphon.

 

[lukec]

80% efficiency, the lower bolts are my cock up when I was drilling during build. To big of a tight arse to buy another pot so just used some spare s/s nuts and bolts to fill holes. Brew went perfect today. Worst thing that happened was I was aiming for 1040 pre boil and got 1044. I was shattered.

 

[Edak]

80% efficiency, the lower bolts are my cock up when I was drilling during build. To big of a tight arse to buy another pot so just used some spare s/s nuts and bolts to fill holes. Brew went perfect today. Worst thing that happened was I was aiming for 1040 pre boil and got 1044. I was shattered.

Yeah I was asking at what point you established this efficiency as it is different between mash and brewhouse.

 

[breakbeer]

lukec, why would you be shattered about those numbers? Just add some water & there's your 1040

 

[lukec]

Mash efficiency

 

[jwollmer]

This is a question for Blue Baggers but maybe others can chime in.
I have just finished reading the whole Nextgen thread and am designing my Brau clone. I am going to go with Arnie's braubushka malt pipe version 2 design whis is similar what Blue Baggers is using. I am having trouble with the Volume calculations with this design. They don't seem to work out. Have you done this? If not what are your volumes like? This seems to be the most tricky part. Also I am in the US and having trouble sourcing the elements that most use to bend around the outside, and yours look like an alternative since my malt pipe will not go to the bottom of the kettle. Do these interfere with the whirlpool?
Thanks in advance for the feedback.
Jim

 

[MastersBrewery]

I know that there is a thread on Home Brew Talk about this build, and several members of that site did follow through with their own build, they may have linked a local source for your elements there.

MOD's if this is out of order please let me know

 

[Sam England]

This is a question for Blue Baggers but maybe others can chime in.
I have just finished reading the whole Nextgen thread and am designing my Brau clone. I am going to go with Arnie's braubushka malt pipe version 2 design whis is similar what Blue Baggers is using. I am having trouble with the Volume calculations with this design. They don't seem to work out. Have you done this? If not what are your volumes like? This seems to be the most tricky part. Also I am in the US and having trouble sourcing the elements that most use to bend around the outside, and yours look like an alternative since my malt pipe will not go to the bottom of the kettle. Do these interfere with the whirlpool?
Thanks in advance for the feedback.
Jim

Arvo Easydoesit,
Having to run off memory here as my notes are at home and I haven't brewed since a big Xmas run in late November. With a single BigW pot (19L) as my malt pipe I can get just over 6kg of grain in there with no issues and normally work on 80 - 85% mash efficiency depending on the gravity of the wort. I tend to brew around 25L batches with a pre-boil of around 31L and normally have about 12-14L left over for sparging, so I suppose that gives a mashin of around 23-25L assuming 1L/kg absorption. I have my pump inlet just higher than my elements so I can never expose them when running to avoid burning them out. I tend to minimise the water required during the mashin to give me as much water as possible for sparging. I do this by starting slightly low on volume, turn the pump on and top up until it stops drawing air in. You'll obviously need less water at mashin for higher gravity beers as the grain displaces more water. Also remember you'll pick up extra volume in the system as the water heats up which means you'll need less to cover elements etc (but I wouldn't be cutting it that fine!!). Sorry, haven't ever done any calcs so can't provide them, but I use a standard Aus sized 50L keg as my outer vessel with no issues on the volumes. A mate of mine has built the same system and uses the much larger in diameter Craftbrewer 70L pot as his outer vessel and can still brew the same sized batches as me without any issues. I think his sparge volumes are slightly lower due to the larger diameter, but not too much.

I use hop bags during the boil which means I don't have that much trub left to worry about during whirlpooling. The shape of the keg also causes it to settle nicely in the middle and as my outlet is quite high I have to tilt the kettle to run the last bit of clear wort off the top of the break material left behind. I use the pump to circulate the wort during chilling with an immersion chiller which speeds up the whole chilling process. I will probably be moving to a plate chiller in the near future so won't be as concerned with keeping the wort moving during the chilling process. The elements I used are a bit harder to clean due to the spiral shape, but that's probably their only real downside.

Hope this helps,
BB

 

[lael]

What are your thoughts on a removable centre rod? I'm using Stainless All Thread and could easily include a "Long Nut/Threaded Socket" at the bottom. I would gain the ability to use a good size hop basket and have the flexibility to use the unit for other things. ATB. Aamcle

Sounds awesome if possible to still get good seals. I actually am now using a wing nut at the bottom of my stand and swap out the all thread for a bolt when I don't want the center rod in there. Works a treat. oringsandmore size# 204. I use a 3/8" washer (larger OD than a M10 washer) for the bottom of the all thread rod with oringsandmore #309.

Love to see your solution if you get it working.

 

[lael]

I took a stab at the kettle and malt pipe sizing using the spreadsheet. I think I have it in the green for all but the high gravity line. My question is on the Actual Fluidisation in Malt Pipe (L/Kg) column. I know the goal is around 3.65. less and you will get stuck mash, more and you will get wort fountains. I am ranging from 2.92 - 8.

If someone could review the spreadsheet attached and give me your thoughts. I am shooting for 2.5gal and 5gal batch sizes. Also I have allowed 3.8cm between malt pipe and kettle. Is that sufficient?

​

Thanks in advance,
Jim

Hi Jim,

Your sizes look awesome. I didn't pay attention to the distance between the two pots until I started replying. If it is each side (looks like it) it should be fine. It depends on what element you get (how much size does it take), and what you use for bulkheads - here in Aus a lot of people are using skin fitting for boats (myself included). They are about 3cm across at the top. If your pot has a curve at the bottom where the sides meet the bottom - you can't place the skin fitting/bulkhead directly at the edge of the sides, which may cause problems if your malt pipe ends up touching the top of the bulkhead.

I've found that 2.8L is plenty of fluidisation for the malt pipe in practice. With that in mind your sizes will probably be able to do up to just under / on 40L with the larger malt pipe assuming efficiency that is decent.

Does that help?

View attachment Jims_Braumiser_Volume_Calculations.xls

 

[jwollmer]

Thanks for the response, blue baggers and Lael, It sounds like I am on the right track. Lael, just to be sure I understand , is it OK to have Fluidisation numbers above 3, even up to 8 in some of my scenarios?

Also I understand max grain bill to be the malt pipe full of fluidized grain, screen to screen. In practice does this work when relying on pump breaks to "stir" mash? or do you need to leave room for the mash to drop when pump shuts off?

Thanks
Jim

 

[jwollmer]

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Thanks

 

[MastersBrewery]

In my 3v I move between 3 (double batch) and 5(single batch) for fluidisation, I probably get slightly better efficiency with the single, but I must say 8 seems a little high. Though I have no experience with these high fluid rates, my gut tells me you maybe end up extracting tannins and causing astringency and possible off flavours.

 

[aamcle]

My build is going along the MT is done as are the filter support disks, my current task is the mesh filters. I have some SS mesh but should I be aiming for a flat disk or something more like the filter in a Cafetiere?

Is it possible to shape the mesh if so how?

Alternatively I could coat the inside of the MP with a little release agent drop in the support disk with a flat mesh filter disk on it and run a bead of food grade silicone around the edge were the disk meets the MP wall.
This should stop any short bits of wire working their way out of the filter and get the best possible fit between the filter assembly and the MP.

What do you think is the best way to proceed?

Many Thanks. Aamcle

 

[9finger]

i have ordered a kit from lael and i am in the United States. Is there anyone who has made one in the United States i could ask some questions about the whole construction including the electrical part?

thanks for your help in advance.

 

[berto]

Hey guys,
I've been following with interest and am starting to get some bits and pieces together for a build. So far have a 42L Palderno pot which I picked up and a planning the rest out now.
Planning on going with big W 20L pot(s) fora standard 23L batch and will also do some calcsto work out how small a batch I can get from using these pots for the malt pipe and whether I need a smaller pipe option also.
I have plans to pump out the odd high gravity brew so I am starting to build a sheet to do some calcs to work out volumes/gravities etc.
I am undecided as to how to make the malt pipe. In general there seems to be 2 main designs. Open bottom malt pipe clamped down to seal against the base, or connected to the base with camlocks or similar.
At the moment I am leaning towards to cam locks as they see to be a simpler system to build, and I cna always change it from this quite easily.

I have a few quick questions which I am hoping someone can answer for me.
For those connecting with cam locks etc, how high up does your malt pipe sit?
How high is the top of everyones elements using the Ubendit elements?
What is the heat density of the Ubendit elements everyone is using?
If I go for a pot raised slightly on cam locks, I am wondering about using a more standard urn element (provided I get the right heat density) so I can keep the water level as low as possible for smaller batches and higher gravities when I want to.
Also, is a tap on the side necessary, or can I just pump out from the skin fitting on the bottom with a pickup filter of some kind? I think I will use silicon hoses to/from the pump so I can swing these around at the end if necessary

Any help much appreciated. I am getting to the point of trying to pick which way to go and make a decision.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk

 

[micbrew]

g day guys

been reading about the use of 2 x big w 19l pots ..to gain a bigger malt pipe

who has had best results and by what method of joining the two together ??? bolts silicon ..ive no clue what would work best

I have 1 pot drilled out and ready to go ...now to get to work on cutting the second one etc etc

jusrt need some info regarding best practice ..

with thanks mick

 

[lael]

g day guys

been reading about the use of 2 x big w 19l pots ..to gain a bigger malt pipe

who has had best results and by what method of joining the two together ??? bolts silicon ..ive no clue what would work best

I have 1 pot drilled out and ready to go ...now to get to work on cutting the second one etc etc

jusrt need some info regarding best practice ..

with thanks mick

Hi Mick,

They are a tapered pot - which means the height you will gain by stacking them is not that much. If you look at bluebaggers? posts a few pages back I think he stacked some Big W pots. I've stacked two straight wall pots to get a much larger malt pipe, but it is not without its drawbacks. You will probably need to be able to pull them apart after each brew to ensure everything is sanitary. If you look at my build thread you can see what I did for mine.

 

[lael]

Hey guys,
I've been following with interest and am starting to get some bits and pieces together for a build. So far have a 42L Palderno pot which I picked up and a planning the rest out now.
Planning on going with big W 20L pot(s) fora standard 23L batch and will also do some calcsto work out how small a batch I can get from using these pots for the malt pipe and whether I need a smaller pipe option also.
I have plans to pump out the odd high gravity brew so I am starting to build a sheet to do some calcs to work out volumes/gravities etc.
I am undecided as to how to make the malt pipe. In general there seems to be 2 main designs. Open bottom malt pipe clamped down to seal against the base, or connected to the base with camlocks or similar.
At the moment I am leaning towards to cam locks as they see to be a simpler system to build, and I cna always change it from this quite easily.

I have a few quick questions which I am hoping someone can answer for me.
For those connecting with cam locks etc, how high up does your malt pipe sit?
How high is the top of everyones elements using the Ubendit elements?
What is the heat density of the Ubendit elements everyone is using?
If I go for a pot raised slightly on cam locks, I am wondering about using a more standard urn element (provided I get the right heat density) so I can keep the water level as low as possible for smaller batches and higher gravities when I want to.
Also, is a tap on the side necessary, or can I just pump out from the skin fitting on the bottom with a pickup filter of some kind? I think I will use silicon hoses to/from the pump so I can swing these around at the end if necessary

Any help much appreciated. I am getting to the point of trying to pick which way to go and make a decision.

Sent from my ASUS Transformer Pad TF300T using Tapatalk

Hi berto,
I went the hole in pot method - only cause I figured it would lead to better wort circulation and better efficiency. I'm not sure if that is actually the case, but so far so good for me. I usually pump my wort out from the outside skin fitting - which also aerates the wort into the fermenter (after chilling). I'm not a super experienced brewer - so it might be having a negative impact I'm not aware of.

 

[lael]

Thanks for the response, blue baggers and Lael, It sounds like I am on the right track. Lael, just to be sure I understand , is it OK to have Fluidisation numbers above 3, even up to 8 in some of my scenarios?

Also I understand max grain bill to be the malt pipe full of fluidized grain, screen to screen. In practice does this work when relying on pump breaks to "stir" mash? or do you need to leave room for the mash to drop when pump shuts off?

Thanks
Jim

Hi Jim,

Sorry - didn't see this post till now. I think it should be fine. The only concern would be if the grain bed thickness got too thin and started to allow channeling. To be honest though - at that size... with the amount of time involved to make a batch, wouldn't you just double batch it? Worst case scenario you cube one for later?

 

[jwollmer]

Hi all,

I am having trouble sourcing the right pots for my braumiser clone. I have been looking at a recirculating BiAB options. The biggest benefit I see in the Braumiser setup is the pump breaks allowing the mash to fall and in effect stir. I know many of you have BIAB background so I thought I would seek your input. I was thinking recirculating so I could use the brauduino to manage mash schedule.


Thoughts?

Thanks

Jim