Braumeister NEXTGEN Build

[Edak]

Edak's temp sensor is a cheaper option ($US10) than what I linked to.

I was in the same position, I now have extra probes with the metal sheath which I didn't use in my BM but might use it in my next fridge.

Yeah I was trying to cut cost out where ever I could and found that sensor which is awesome. I think that sure electronics has an ebay store too, so compare the prices. Mine works very well, though I am not sure about how thick the thermowell is mine appeared to be high quality.

aaah, i'm pretty well educated on 240 and 12 volt systems... now gotta learn digital, but that makes sense. so essentially they've got a power supply (+5V), information supply back to equipment/thermometer (DATA) and a Ground.

looks like a pretty cheap, super useful thermometer to couple the probe and the readout together.

for the supposed 1-wire system, you can get away without having to connect the 5V and have a pull-up on the data line so that reduces it to two wires. Also, if you had a common and reliable ground connection at either end of the sensor then technically you might not need a GND, henceforth they called it a 1-wire system. I use mine in 2-wire configuration.

I think that mine actually came with red black and white wires, red=5V, black=gnd, white=data

 

[bonj]

I was in the same position, I now have extra probes with the metal sheath which I didn't use in my BM but might use it in my next fridge.

Yeah I was trying to cut cost out where ever I could and found that sensor which is awesome. I think that sure electronics has an ebay store too, so compare the prices. Mine works very well, though I am not sure about how thick the thermowell is mine appeared to be high quality.



for the supposed 1-wire system, you can get away without having to connect the 5V and have a pull-up on the data line so that reduces it to two wires. Also, if you had a common and reliable ground connection at either end of the sensor then technically you might not need a GND, henceforth they called it a 1-wire system. I use mine in 2-wire configuration.

I think that mine actually came with red black and white wires, red=5V, black=gnd, white=data

I use mine in powered mode. You still need the 4.7K pullup on the data line in powered mode.

 

[angus_grant]

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Hey Edak,

Do you have any pics of your heating element installed? That is the next bit of my system I am going to buy and will probably go with the same element you got from Thermal Products. is it still working OK for you? Any problems after your first batch? Or have you done a couple more by now..

Would they remember how they bent yours up? I'm in Brisbane so can't really take my pots in to them. But I am using a Big W pot for the malt pipe and a 50L main vessel so it would be bent up the same as yours. I haven't really found any heating element places up here in Brisbane.

 

[Dan Pratt]

Matho

Righto, time to give us all the cost for your BM clone? what is your total cost for the build that included parts you already had>>>it would be great to know as this thread and i quote - Be f@#ked if im paying that much brewery!

Edak,

i think you would have an idea of what yours cost to build are too>> how does that compare to an actual BM on price, dont forget to include your time into the build at some kind of value for the sake of comparison.

I ask because its been 12 months since this thread started and I am border line buying one v's building one just like you have>>

 

[Edak]

Matho

Righto, time to give us all the cost for your BM clone? what is your total cost for the build that included parts you already had>>>it would be great to know as this thread and i quote - Be f@#ked if im paying that much brewery!

Edak,

i think you would have an idea of what yours cost to build are too>> how does that compare to an actual BM on price, dont forget to include your time into the build at some kind of value for the sake of comparison.

I ask because its been 12 months since this thread started and I am border line buying one v's building one just like you have>>

Hey Pratty,

The costs do add up, I added it up and found that it cost me about $950 in actual parts, of which the largest contributors are the Pump (160), the element (135), the pot (110) and base (110). This does not include any tools that I purchased (which I did buy some drill bits, hole punches and grinder discs), nor does it include my time of which there was an exhaustive amount. If I were to charge the same hourly rate as I do when I do Engineering work, then the cost would be phenomenal and much more than a BM, however I count this as a hobby and as part of the fun. The programming alone takes a considerable amount of time.

Was it worth it to me? Yeah.

Would I do it again? Possibly because I know where to get everything, know how to use all of my tools and I wouldn't have to write the code again.

 

[Edak]

Hey Edak,

Do you have any pics of your heating element installed? That is the next bit of my system I am going to buy and will probably go with the same element you got from Thermal Products. is it still working OK for you? Any problems after your first batch? Or have you done a couple more by now..

Would they remember how they bent yours up? I'm in Brisbane so can't really take my pots in to them. But I am using a Big W pot for the malt pipe and a 50L main vessel so it would be bent up the same as yours. I haven't really found any heating element places up here in Brisbane.

Hey Angus,

I posted it earlier, but this is the element in the bottom.

The guys had no idea about bending it right, I had to manipulate it afterwards to get it (partially) right too.

 

[Malted]

I posted it earlier, but this is the element in the bottom.

Sorry I had not seen this earlier. So you're obviously not concerned about having the temp probe that close to the element?

 

[Edak]

Sorry I had not seen this earlier. So you're obviously not concerned about having the temp probe that close to the element?

Not worried at all, the pump inlet is there and any time that the element is on the pum is running so there is always flow around the temp sensor. Believe me you aren't the first to ask that question .

I figured that if anyone wants to see any of the other images of my brewery I have enabled a folder for public viewing on my webserver.

Cobbers Brewery Image List

 

[Dan Pratt]

Hey Pratty,

The costs do add up, I added it up and found that it cost me about $950 in actual parts, of which the largest contributors are the Pump (160), the element (135), the pot (110) and base (110). This does not include any tools that I purchased (which I did buy some drill bits, hole punches and grinder discs), nor does it include my time of which there was an exhaustive amount. If I were to charge the same hourly rate as I do when I do Engineering work, then the cost would be phenomenal and much more than a BM, however I count this as a hobby and as part of the fun. The programming alone takes a considerable amount of time.

Was it worth it to me? Yeah.

Would I do it again? Possibly because I know where to get everything, know how to use all of my tools and I wouldn't have to write the code again.

its an impressive build that is for sure, well done and the best of brewing to you. thanks for sharing the costs.

Matho must still be adding his up>>>lol.

 

[angus_grant]

ha ha, I think I may have asked about the proximity of the probe to the element. I couldn't find that image though and scoured through this thread. At this stage I am planning on having the temp probe in the bottom of the malt pipe so I get the temp of the liquid before it goes through the grain. That may change when I start getting the malt pipe built and the filter plates and perhaps the temp probe won't fit.

Edak: would you bend up the element yourself or would you still have them do it? You mentioned having to rejig the element a bit after they had bent it so wondered what the issues were there... And how is it unbent? A straight 2240mm of element, and how would they ship it to brisbane?

Thanks for all the pics.

 

[Edak]

ha ha, I think I may have asked about the proximity of the probe to the element. I couldn't find that image though and scoured through this thread. At this stage I am planning on having the temp probe in the bottom of the malt pipe so I get the temp of the liquid before it goes through the grain. That may change when I start getting the malt pipe built and the filter plates and perhaps the temp probe won't fit.

Edak: would you bend up the element yourself or would you still have them do it? You mentioned having to rejig the element a bit after they had bent it so wondered what the issues were there... And how is it unbent? A straight 2240mm of element, and how would they ship it to brisbane?

Thanks for all the pics.

Hey Angus,
I wouldn't have thought to bend the element myself because I don't have any experience doing so and would have been afraid to damage it. They are supplied in a straight length with bushes fitted. They mentioned something about a bend radius which must be followed. One of the images on my site shows how I wanted it but the 90 degree bends were made at same length from each end which made it difficult for me.

No idea how it would be shipped, I drove across town to get it and had it bent on the spot.

 

[scooter_59]

Hi Edak,
What a piece of art . Well done . I did have a look at your piccies and what a top job . Have you looked at putting elbows on the outlet side of the pump ? The reason I ask is , I would be concerned with the hose being bent so much it may have a tendancy to collapse under the heat of the wort .Have you had any problems with that side of things ?


Cheers
Leachim

 

[Edak]

Hi Edak,
What a piece of art . Well done . I did have a look at your piccies and what a top job . Have you looked at putting elbows on the outlet side of the pump ? The reason I ask is , I would be concerned with the hose being bent so much it may have a tendancy to collapse under the heat of the wort .Have you had any problems with that side of things ?


Cheers
Leachim

Thanks Leachim,

I understand your concern but the pressure on the outlet side is great so much so that I had to throttle the output significantly with the ball valve. The little piece of silicone doesn't come close to making any difference here. I initially had the same thought though. It did catch one little fragment of a grain in it though when I was cleaning the system out

 

[Malted]

Edak: would you bend up the element yourself or would you still have them do it? ... wondered what the issues were there... A straight 2240mm of element, and how would they ship it to brisbane?

You can read all of the text, or skip to the colour coded answers.

I have ordered a regular element (i.e not stainless) element from Thermal products. Postage is not a problem. I ordered a 1755mm element and they said they could send it via Toll Ipec, who can carry much longer items for them.

Then I decided to get them to bend it for me. They will do basic bending (ends at 90 degrees and basic U-shapes) in the shop (i.e sales folks with off the shelf stuff) but for anything circular they get it specially made in the factory. Lead time is 12 days after payment is made.
My 'custom' 1755mm 2000w element cost me $182 plus $22 postage from Melbourne to Adelaide.
I sent them a picture of Mathos element (see picture below) with my required dimensions on it. I am building a unit the same dimensions as Mathos: 19L BigW pot for the main vessel and a 9L BigW pot for the malt pipe.

You can see in the picture that Matho had to contend with a large 'no bend' zone near the bushes. I have been assured that the 'custom' element I have ordered directly from the factory who will bend 25-30mm up from the bushes (instead of 70-90mm as per Mathos). This will allow me to potentially have a smaller minimum, strike water or boil volume. Since there is only one element in mine this is probably not critical but if you had two elements (as per the 50L Braumeister) you would want the element under the malt pipe to sit as low as possible.
I also wanted the bushes 120mm or less apart so they could fit into the controller enclosure. I have not yet received the element so do not know if I will be able to squish the element ends in with everything else in the enclosure, or if it will need some 'adjustments'.

 

[PeteQ]

For the guys that haven't bought an element yet I bought a Tobins 2400 watt part number BM73HO for $54. I was also quoted $49 for the 1800 watt for those that care...
I work for a company that pumps lots of cash through wholesalers and apparently they put no margin on the element for me so i assume that's the best you're going to get.

The only bad thing about the element is it sits really high in the pot (about 100mm) but it was really easy to bend to shape, it took me maybe 5 minutes of stuffing about. I'm using a 19l Big W pot at the moment as the main pot and the element sits about half way up the 8l malt pipe.

I'm more than halfway through my braumiser build and will post photos when all done

 

[Malted]

For the guys that haven't bought an element yet I bought a Tobins 2400 watt part number BM73HO for $54. I was also quoted $49 for the 1800 watt for those that care...
I work for a company that pumps lots of cash through wholesalers and apparently they put no margin on the element for me so i assume that's the best you're going to get.

It would appear as though you got a better price. Listed trade price is higher than that.

http://www.tobins.com.au/HTML/ItemHTML/KR73HO00.htm 2400 watt BM73HO Direct link
http://www.tobins.com.au/HTML/ItemHTML/KR73FO00.htm 1800 watt BM73FO00 Direct link

At any rate, the pricing and product looks good. That's good info, thanks for sharing.

 

[angus_grant]

Thanks Malted. All great info. I was going to buy my grain as the next big purchase but think I will switch across to purchasing the heating element. Even if I have the grain mill I could only do mini-BIAB. Once I install the heating element in the big pot I can do full-size BIAB whilst building the malt pipe so getting some experience in AG brewing before I start using the system.

PeteQ: I think the problem with the heating element sitting so high it results in a high minimum water level to cover the heating element in a bigger main vessel. According to calculations from my volume calculations spreadsheet linked to earlier in the thread, it would require almost 24L of initial water with a grain bill of 4L, which would not leave much space for sparging the grains after mashing. And that is with fairly conservative figures for grain absorption, and water level above element.

The element height would most probably be fine in the 8L malt pipe / 19L main vessel combo as you would always have quite a lot of water in there anyway to get as much wort as possible.

 

[frostih]

Hi angus_grant,

you're in Brisbane I believe you wrote. I went yesterday to a place called Cynebar in Brisbane and bought a 3000W , 2,5m long element for $50 +GST, they can bend it for you there and then for $5 +GST per bend. They did a circular/spiral bend and also 90 degree bend. It has got gaskets and all you need. They also got lower wattage elements for a bit less.

http://www.cynebar.com.au/

The only problem that I had with it was that they bend it about 12cm from the gaskets, they said that it they couldn't bend it any closer to the gasket because then they would ruin it. But then I read instructions from Thermal Electric on DIY elements when I got home and bend it in myself closer the gasket to bring down the height of the element. The results aren't the prettiest but I think it should work. I did continuity test on the element and it still seems fine, but I haven't actually tried it out yet.

http://www.thermalelectric.com.au/document...U-Bend%20It.pdf

 

[angus_grant]

Hi Frostih,

Sounds like the goods.. Let me know how it goes with the extra bends you put in. It's looking around $200 for an element from Thermal Products so if I can get one from these guys for cheaper, that would be nice..

Would be good if you could upload some pics of the element.

Cheers,
Angus.

 

[Edak]

Hi Frostih,

Sounds like the goods.. Let me know how it goes with the extra bends you put in. It's looking around $200 for an element from Thermal Products so if I can get one from these guys for cheaper, that would be nice..

Would be good if you could upload some pics of the element.

Cheers,
Angus.

$200 from thermal products?

Mine was $135 bent for me. Incoloy 800 , 2400W 2215mm