Braumeister NEXTGEN Build

[sboreham]

I go in there regularly and saw them last time,but I didn't think much of the drainage capacity. The holes are too small and will restrict flow quite significantly. Also aluminium is not ideal.

Thanks for that, that's good information. Pity though I thought I was onto a winner.

 

[Edak]

Thanks for that, that's good information. Pity though I thought I was onto a winner.

Yeah I saw it and originally thought "wow that looks useful" but inspected closer and saw that it was not ideal. It is meant to replace a bag in a biab rig, but it would not work because of the lack of flow.

 

[real_beer]

:icon_offtopic:
Edak the build looks great, but I'm curious about your pooch.

Is it related to the rug in anyway? Or have you been doing DNA experiments with chameleon lizards, along the lines that Sheldon did in "Big Bang Theory" with his luminous goldfish?

 

[Edak]

:icon_offtopic:
Edak the build looks great, but I'm curious about your pooch.

Is it related to the rug in anyway? Or have you been doing DNA experiments with chameleon lizards, along the lines that Sheldon did in "Big Bang Theory" with his luminous goldfish?

Rug? Nah my dog just has excessive skin issues.

 

[breakbeer]

It cost $199.95 so I assume there is free postage.

I wouldn't be making that assumption

 

[sboreham]

I wouldn't be making that assumption

Well if it's not you only need to find something else worth more then 5c to get to keg kings free postage

 

[sboreham]

Well if it's not you only need to find something else worth more then 5c to get to keg kings free postage

Although a quick look on their website using my phone I couldn't see the free postage specified so they might not be doing it anymore.

 

[Malted]

Howdy Braumiser builders. I have had some questions about pot and malt pipe dimensions etc of the 50L Speidel Braumeister, so I thought I would take some measurements and post for the benfit of all.
There are more dimensions shown in the photos than I have discussed below.


Left to right: short malt pipe, 50L malt pipe, 50L Braumiester.
(Weights in green are how much the item pictured weighs).

I have calculated the maximum grain volume area as the total height of the malt pipe minus the height the filter plate sits up from the floor minus the height that the top filter plate reaches.
Maximum short malt pipe grain height = 275mm - 110mm - 33mm = 132mm (see explanation of 33mm in 2nd photo)
Maximum 50L malt pipe grain height = 480mm - 110mm - 33mm = 337mm


Volumes of these items:

Maximum volumes of usable area for grain:
Short malt pipe 12.41 L
50L malt pipe 31.68 L

The maximum total volume of the BM main vessel = 85.14 L .
You would never actually fill a pot to the top if you want to leave it unattended during the boil. I am comfortable with a preboil volume of 66L generally not being able to boil over in this sized pot (100% rye I did recently was an exception, I had to knock the foam down). That is a head space of about 33% (or one third in the old measure) more than the preboil boil volume. According to Speidel (of the 50L unit) you can expect 50L of finished beer (allowing for all losses) from the 85L main vessel. Food for volume thought...


How much milled grain would they take?

If 1kg of grain displaces 0.65L... using my figures punched into angus_grant's volume calculator spreadsheet http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry930100 Link at bottom of first post as a P.S.

Looking at some liquor to grist ratios:
Short malt pipe = 4.6kg (2.0L/kg), 3.9kg (at 2.5L/kg), 3.4kg (at 3.0L/kg)
50L malt pipe = 11.9 kg (at 2.0L/kg), 10 kg (at 2.5L/kg), 8.6kg (at 3.0L/kg)

This accords with what users have said about the 50L malt pipe which I thought to be a total grain volume of 9-11kg (as listed by Speidel). Having said that I have mashed in and then added more grain to a total of 13kg of grain in the 50L malt pipe (and thought I could put more in... I had been drinking...). I reckon you could go more (especially if you have 'had a few' prior to mash in :lol: ) but perhaps you are risking making the grain bed too dense and the pumps might not be able to force the wort through it and then risk scorching of the wort?

I would be happy enough to generalise and say:
The short malt pipe, in the 50L unit would comfortably take 3.5kg - 4.5kg of grain.
The 50L malt pipe would comfortably take 8.5kg - 12.0kg of grain.

You could mash outside of these ranges but it is up to you to decide if this is comfortable.




This is how the top filter plate would sit on top of the grain bed if it was as high as it could go. The horizontal tube sits on top of the malt pipe to hold it down with a wing nut. Because of the stabilising tube (stops the plate lifting/tilting to one side etc) length of 33 mm, the maximum height the top filter plate could be is 33mm less than the top of the malt pipe.


The malt pipe has a V shaped rolled lip that protrudes into the malt pipe. The filter plate slides up and down the centre rod and the bottom filter plate stops on this lip. The plate thus sits about 110 mm above the floor of the BM. The maximum height of the element under the filter plate is 75mm. This equals 35 mm gap between the element max height and the filter plate in the malt pipe. This means that the element is surrounded by 10.34 L of wort underneath the malt pipe and grain.

 

[TonyC]

Howdy Braumiser builders. I have had some questions about pot and malt pipe dimensions etc of the 50L Speidel Braumeister, so I thought I would take some measurements and post for the benfit of all.
There are more dimensions shown in the photos than I have discussed below.

View attachment 57080
Left to right: short malt pipe, 50L malt pipe, 50L Braumiester.
(Weights in green are how much the item pictured weighs).

I have calculated the maximum grain volume area as the total height of the malt pipe minus the height the filter plate sits up from the floor minus the height that the top filter plate reaches.
Maximum short malt pipe grain height = 275mm - 110mm - 33mm = 132mm (see explanation of 33mm in 2nd photo)
Maximum 50L malt pipe grain height = 480mm - 110mm - 33mm = 337mm


Volumes of these items:

Maximum volumes of usable area for grain:
Short malt pipe 12.41 L
50L malt pipe 31.68 L

The maximum total volume of the BM main vessel = 85.14 L .
You would never actually fill a pot to the top if you want to leave it unattended during the boil. I am comfortable with a preboil volume of 66L generally not being able to boil over in this sized pot (100% rye I did recently was an exception, I had to knock the foam down). That is a head space of about 33% (or one third in the old measure) more than the preboil boil volume. According to Speidel (of the 50L unit) you can expect 50L of finished beer (allowing for all losses) from the 85L main vessel. Food for volume thought...


How much milled grain would they take?

If 1kg of grain displaces 0.65L... using my figures punched into angus_grant's volume calculator spreadsheet http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...mp;#entry930100 Link at bottom of first post as a P.S.

Looking at some liquor to grist ratios:
Short malt pipe = 4.6kg (2.0L/kg), 3.9kg (at 2.5L/kg), 3.4kg (at 3.0L/kg)
50L malt pipe = 11.9 kg (at 2.0L/kg), 10 kg (at 2.5L/kg), 8.6kg (at 3.0L/kg)

This accords with what users have said about the 50L malt pipe which I thought to be a total grain volume of 9-11kg (as listed by Speidel). Having said that I have mashed in and then added more grain to a total of 13kg of grain in the 50L malt pipe (and thought I could put more in... I had been drinking...). I reckon you could go more (especially if you have 'had a few' prior to mash in :lol: ) but perhaps you are risking making the grain bed too dense and the pumps might not be able to force the wort through it and then risk scorching of the wort?

I would be happy enough to generalise and say:
The short malt pipe, in the 50L unit would comfortably take 3.5kg - 4.5kg of grain.
The 50L malt pipe would comfortably take 8.5kg - 12.0kg of grain.

You could mash outside of these ranges but it is up to you to decide if this is comfortable.



View attachment 57077
This is how the top filter plate would sit on top of the grain bed if it was as high as it could go. The horizontal tube sits on top of the malt pipe to hold it down with a wing nut. Because of the stabilising tube (stops the plate lifting/tilting to one side etc) length of 33 mm, the maximum height the top filter plate could be is 33mm less than the top of the malt pipe.

View attachment 57078
The malt pipe has a V shaped rolled lip that protrudes into the malt pipe. The filter plate slides up and down the centre rod and the bottom filter plate stops on this lip. The plate thus sits about 110 mm above the floor of the BM. The maximum height of the element under the filter plate is 75mm. This equals 35 mm gap between the element max height and the filter plate in the malt pipe. This means that the element is surrounded by 10.34 L of wort underneath the malt pipe and grain.

Good stuff Malted, noe need to unload my camera now

 

[Edak]

Wow, I was not aware that the malt pipe would waste so much volume in the top and bottom. And here I am complaining that the usable volume of my malt pipe (between the plates) is 16.5L. This is in fact better than the original I wonder how this compares to the actual 20L BM? rather than the 50LBM/20LMP combo.

I must admit that given that the BigW pot is somewhat tapered (so that they stack) the top filter plate does not slide up and down so may or may not be as ideal.

 

[Edak]

I also wonder why they left so much space below the lip in the malt pipe?

 

[Florian]

I can only assume that it is meant to reduce channeling through the malt pipe.

 

[Edak]

I can only assume that it is meant to reduce channeling through the malt pipe.

I would have thought that the filter plate and fine mesh would have combated that reasonably well, however does the original BM have a flow control valve on the outlet of the pump?

I must admint that I could use some extra volume in my MP, just so that it sits up a bit higher as the original 23L i put in there gets close to the top of the outside of the pipe.

 

[Florian]

And there you have just given another good reason...

Still think that the extra space would benefit non channelling, as the wort would push more evenly towards the mesh etc than if the pump outlet was just below the mesh.

Then there is the thermowell that takes up 2 or 3cm.

Actually, have just looked at my 20L model, the mesh sits much lower than on the 50L, it's actually sitting at 4cm as opposed to 11cm. The pump outlet is pretty much in the middle.

Maybe the outlets on the 50L are more towards the outer edges and therefore need a deeper area for the wort to unchannel to also 'hit' the middle of the malt pipe? Just speculating...

 

[Malted]

I also wonder why they left so much space below the lip in the malt pipe?

The bottom filter plate is only 35mm above the center element (50L has two elements).
That sounds reasonable to me to stop potential scorching of the grains closest to the element? It is likely to be as Matho found, due to the no bend zone of the element directly above the ends. The element sits quite high at 75mm at it's highest point.

Perhaps being this high also leaves enough room to be able to get a cleaning device under the element? (between the pot base and the lower ring of the element - about 2 1/2 coils around)
The element I have ordered from thermal products for my minimiser build will be bent at 25-30mm from the ends, to keep the element at a lower profile. I will see whether this makes it difficult to clean the element. Of course I can go lower than this with my filter plate because as it is only a small unit, there will not be a center element under the bottom plate. I might try for about 20mm above the main vessel bottom.
As Flo says, I reckon the large area would allow for more even distribution of the pressurised wort up through the filter plate.

Having said that, the area under the bottom filter plate is excessive when using the short malt pipe. I think this may be why MHB says that the short malt pipe for the 50L BM is not the best bit of kit and that it is more suited for 30L production. Perhaps the short malt pipe makes the minimum volume of water needed higher than perhaps it ought to be relative to the volume of grain?

Edit: no the 50L does not have flow control on the pump outlets.
Edit#2 see this post for a picture inside the 50L BM. You can clearly see the pump outlets. @Flo: are the outlets more towards the outer edge compared to the 20L BM? http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...st&p=835439

 

[Malted]

Good stuff Malted, noe need to unload my camera now

Yeah but my missus really liked you taking her for a ride...

 

[Florian]

My element sits with 9cm well above the mesh at 4cm...

 

[Bucks]

Awesome job Malted!!! Cheers

 

[Edak]

Thanks for that bit of information, 40mm much more reasonable, i forgot that the 50l had an additional coil under the malt pipe, which close it perfectly. Yeah the smaller gap in the 20l makes sense. I have about 15mm under my lower filter so it is not directly on top of the outlet.

 

[sboreham]

That's Great information. based on the dimensions given, looking at the specs on braumeister's website and assuming the legs on the 50L are the same as the 20L. Then the dimensions of the 20L boil pot would be

Diameter 400mm
Height 460mm
Volume 57.83L

I do also have a question. do you think the shape is important, I'm assuming the reason the braumeister is high with a small diameter is to allow the pump to push water through as much grain as possible, does this sound correct? If this is true, then from some looking around the 20L version seems to have more options for pre-made pots. A lot of the Pots around 85L seem to be shorter with larger diameters.