Biab Question?

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redmactruck

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If I were to start an AG BIAB, do I need to allow more grain? I [presume to account for less brewing efficiency & since I would not be sparging as such.

How much do I need to add extra??
 
I get about 65% efficiency but have only used older grain as I got about 15kg for free so not sure if that effects it. Id allow 65-70% eff and adjust from there you should be able to work out your efficiency from your first brew and go from there till you find a average
 
Biab doesn't necessarily give you less efficiency. If i try hard i can get 85% consistently, but it means i do a mashout and sparge. I'd rather just do a sparge (or mashout) and get 70-75%, makes for a lazier brewday and its only a few cents extra grain.

Do a brewday and then calculate your efficiency. If its low then play around a little to get it up.
 
I think it depends on your crush. Since I got my Marga I've been getting better efficiency than from the crush from Craftbrewer - for some reason. I'm not criticizing CB at all, they obviously do a one size fits all crush which is understandable. Mine is a tad finer IMHO.

As an insurance policy I'd maybe look at about an extra 500g of base malt but no need to increase the other grains, and see how you go.
 
Biab doesn't necessarily give you less efficiency. If i try hard i can get 85% consistently, but it means i do a mashout and sparge. I'd rather just do a sparge (or mashout) and get 70-75%, makes for a lazier brewday and its only a few cents extra grain.

Do a brewday and then calculate your efficiency. If its low then play around a little to get it up.
Is that mash efficiency?
Also, "If its low then play around a little to get it up." lol
 
I don't know what efficiency it is. Its whatever the one is that brewmate use to formulate recipes.
 
Its not so much a case of adding extra grain because of BIAB has a low efficiency, its just that it is often recommended for novice brewers until they become familiar with their own equipment. Invariably with some first few attempts at BIAB there's an unexpected loss somewhere, be it extra trub loss, miscalculated volumes, poor draining, spillage, etc. and so a bit extra is suggested to take care of that.
When it comes to BIAB there's a few different variants, however the stock BIAB method (some folks may call it 'pure BIAB') isn't sparged in the usual manner as all of the mash and sparge water goes in with the grain at the beginning as a simple single infusion mash. Therefore it is different to a traditional mash which is then deliberately not sparged (as would usually be the case), where efficiency would most likely suffer. Another way to look at it is that, as far as water goes, stock BIAB combines the mash and sparge step into one, in which the mash is actually sparged, just that the sparge water is in there from the start.
Many years of experimentation and trialling on part of the BIAB pioneers have shown that this does indeed prove quite an acceptable method, and as per browndog's earlier post, BYO seem to think it is now mainstream- that's probably quite a reasonable barometer. What often does come up though, and this isn't unique to BIAB, is that water chemistry is an important factor in ensuring a reliable and acceptable efficiency, however there's a few other factors as well, eg. Bribie mentions crush, mashout is another, there would be more.
To answer the OP's question, BIAB efficiency is usually quite respectable so no, there's really no need to add more grain. However in the novice brewer's initial stages of all- grain brewing, as I've outlined above, it isn't such a bad idea to be sure there is a decent yield and avoid major disappointment. More info linked below if you're interested.
 
could my bad efficiency be from adding 5.2kg of grain but only having a 19lt pot to boil into??? so really I am doing a high gravity mash which makes me suffer in efficiency??

I do sparge but mash consists of 15lts of water and the sparge with 6lts of water so its not really that big. Just wish I could get a bigger pot lol

Another question how do you do a mash out??? I think it would be hard with the current setup, but in real terms is it a matter of adding x amount of boiling water to get to temp or heating the mash if you have the means?
 
Kelbygreen, Maxi-BIAB in the link below is could be helpful. Alternatively, NickJD's 20L stovetop method here on AHB is quite similar, however I'd suggest more sparge. With 5+kg of grain in a 19L pot you're mashing at around conventional 3V L:G, so sparge it as if it was conventional is my advice, plus if your pot isn't full during the mash or towards the end of the boil, then top it up. Note though that its probably not a good idea to add any sparge liquor after about 20 minutes from the end of the boil, you want it to be well sanitised before FO and chilling. Microwaving the sparge going into the boil is a helpful tip, saves having a boil pause.
FWIW, I use the Maxi-BIAB method most of the time, 4.5kg of grain usually yields a fermenter full of 1.050 or higher after post- boil dilution, but often with some sugar as well (which is to style, not a short cut).
WRT Mashout, I use sparge water just off the boil, so by the end of two mini- dunk sparges of about 4L each the grain temp is around mid- 70s. Ensuring it is acidic may also be helpful, I add a pinch of citric acid as our water here is alkaline.
 
yeah no worries the last batch was full to the brim I boiled for 45 mins and topped up with the rest and then started my hop additions. I had 15lts in mash tun and it was to cold so put prob 1.5lts of boiling water in there and sparged with 6 lts so I am finding it really hard with a small pot. Plus as I say I have had the grain for about 6 months and god knows when the bag was open it wasnt soggy but wasnt fully crunchy like a fresh batch I tried at LHBS so maybe lost a bit there? I am not to worried as want to build a manifold for my esky once I can get a pot so its only temp setup :p
 
I have done a few BIABs now. My grain bill is the same as full Ag'ers from what I can gather - approx 4.1 kg grain for 20L batch. I dont sparge - just chuck the whole lot in and mash (start with 32L of water)- then raise temp slowly stirring to 78C for mashout - pull the bag and boil for 90 mins. Have done a few now and my efficiency rate (brewmate software) is consistently around 80%. I'm milling my own now and no change. If you ever try to use raw wheat **** warning **** set your efficiency to 65-67%. Thats how much it dropped using raw wheat ...
Cheers
BBB
 
yeah see there lies my problem I mash and sparge with almost half of what you use. I mill in a coffee grinder so I prob have a heap more trub. I did improve my efficiency by after I removed the wort I needed 10 more lts so added that to the pot with the trub boiled for 15 mins then drained again its a pain and your IBU gets affected not sure by what though but throwing away over 2lts of trub with a heap of high wort concentrate in there would lower it
 
I typically get 80% into the boiler using the full volume, mashout style. That goes down with higher gravity beers, say 75% with a 7.5kg bill, variable with the crush size as well, coarser is lower.
 

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