Best Ag Plisener Recipe? Malts, Hops, Yeast Etc?

[grinder]

Have made a couple of pilseners in the past but they have all been substandard in my opinion.
I am now on a quest to get the best pilsener recipe.
I am thinking Urquell, JS pils, bohemian Pils etc
Please give me some recommendations on the best malts, hops, quantities etc
I want my next pilsener to be worth it!

Cheers

 

[Stuster]

Grinder, you might find some answers in the Style of the Week threads on Bohemian Pilsner and German Pilsner. There are also a few nice recipes in the recipe section.

Hope you find your holy grail. :chug:

 

[goatherder]

German malts, German yeast. German noble hops (hallertauer, tettnanger etc) for German pils, Czech Saaz for Bo pils. Anything else is a second best in my opinion.

 

[Thommo]

I'll second Goatherder's advice...German Malts. Weyerman's Pilsner and some Carapils.

All you need in my opinion. (Apart from the right hops and yeast, but you know what I mean.)

 

[leeboy]

My last few pilsners have been a blend btw german and bohemian. I've used 1/2 german pils malt, 1/2 aussie export pilsner malt. With 0.5kg carapils and 0.5kg wheat.

Bittered with hallaetaur (spelling sorry)
Flavour Saaz
Aroma Hallaetaur + Saaz

Taken it to a total of 32 IBU, 20 through initial bittering.

Used both urquell wyeast in the past and saf34. Both work well for this style.
End Product especially if temp control on fridge is great. Very crisp with a little bit fo that saaz funk blended with great hallautauer aroma.
Goodluck

 

[Kai]

There's no great secret to pilsener recipes. You can make a stunning one with 100% pils malt, any lager yeast (and a few ales for that matter) and any single noble hop (or equivalent). All you need is good brewing practice.

 

[Zwickel]

If you dont mind brewers, Id like to post my recipe here:

First Id like to mention, that its important to do a stepping mash.

Take 100% Pilsener malt, immerse at 35C,
heat up to 52C and rest for 20min. (thats only to get some amino acids as nutrition for the yeast)
proceed to 63C and rest for 45 to 60min (depends how dry youd like the beer to be)
step up to 72C and rest for 20min,
go to 78C and finish.

Boil the wort for ~90min., add bittering hops, such as Northern Brewer or Magnum 5-10min. after the boil begins, add aroma hops after 75min.

In my case for example, Im taking for a 60l batch ~80g Magnum at 13% AA and 35g fine Saazer arome hops at 2,2% AA.

Cool down the wort to <12C and pitch at least an amount of 1% of the whole batchsize bottom fermenting viscous yeast.

Leave the batch fermenting for around 1 week at 8-10C and then start racking and successive go down to a temp of 0C over 5 days.

Thats all...Prost :beer:

 

[bugwan]

Prost Zwickel

Getting off topic here - in terms of a multiple step mash such as this, does anyone see a problem with mashing in at say a 3:1 ratio to hit original temps and then using a constantly moving immersion heater to hit the subsequent temps?

I stuffed up the second step of my weizen on the weekend and undershot it (66) by about 4 degrees. Rather than drain the HLT and stuff up my next step, I stuck the immersion heater in the mash and stirred constantly until I hit 66 on the dot. Worked a treat! Best temp accuracy I've had in a long time :unsure:

Would stepping up through Zwickel's 5 steps above work effectively?

 

[Kai]

Prost Zwickel

Getting off topic here - in terms of a multiple step mash such as this, does anyone see a problem with mashing in at say a 3:1 ratio to hit original temps and then using a constantly moving immersion heater to hit the subsequent temps?

Sounds like the easiest way to do it to me.

 

[Zwickel]

bugwan, I dont see any problems with your method, should work fine.

For a Weizen there is no benefit to do so many steps, thats only important for a Pilsener or Lager.

Because of the low fermenting temperature, one has to support the yeast grow with some nutritions, build at 52C, not so with top fermenting yeasts.

At 63C the beta amylase is working best, that means, most of the starch will be converted into fermentable sugar, resulting a very dry beer and at 72C, the alpha amylase will produce only a little unfermentable sugar that is left. In the end, the only arome one may taste in the Pilsener will be out of the hops.

Not so the top fermenting Weizen.

Anyway top fermenting yeasts are fermenting much faster, dont need so much nutritions.
Weizen beer is anyway a aromatic beer, aromatized by the yeast, such like esters and diacetyl.
So one may do only one single rest at 66C for both enzymes, no problem.

Cheers

 

[matti]

heat up to 52C and rest for 20min. (thats only to get some amino acids as nutrition for the yeast)
proceed to 63C and rest for 45 to 60min (depends how dry youd like the beer to be)
step up to 72C and rest for 20min,
go to 78C and finish

.

I am Noonanite.

Grab the heavies and do a decoction after 52 Degrees ar 20 min.
That would to help raise the temp as well.

As for Malt I am happy with 50 german and 50 pecent australian.

Hallertau mittelfrau and Saaz and WLP830

The decoction and the yeast does it for me.

Bloody beautiful

 

[blackbock]

bugwan, I dont see any problems with your method, should work fine.

For a Weizen there is no benefit to do so many steps, thats only important for a Pilsener or Lager.

Because of the low fermenting temperature, one has to support the yeast grow with some nutritions, build at 52C, not so with top fermenting yeasts.

At 63C the beta amylase is working best, that means, most of the starch will be converted into fermentable sugar, resulting a very dry beer and at 72C, the alpha amylase will produce only a little unfermentable sugar that is left. In the end, the only arome one may taste in the Pilsener will be out of the hops.

Zwickel, out of interest what brand malts do you use for your Pilseners? Are there any malts available for you to use that we can't get? The only German malt available here is Weyermann. In the past people have used Hoepfner, but that's not available any more.

Looking at your mash schedule it looks like you make fairly dry Pilseners. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the 52C step provides yeast with nutrition. I was under the impression that the 52C step was to break down haze-forming proteins?

Cheers mate B)

 

[DJR]

Looking at your mash schedule it looks like you make fairly dry Pilseners. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the 52C step provides yeast with nutrition. I was under the impression that the 52C step was to break down haze-forming proteins?

A protein rest breaks down proteins into amino acids and shorter chains - increasing Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN) which is needed for the yeast to grow. Most modern malts have a high level of modification which basically means their TSN (total soluble nitrogen) is high - which means FAN should be high without doing a protein rest. Depends on the modification - less than 38 Kolbach probably needs a step mash or decoction, higher than 40 Kolbach there would be little need (and above 45 or so you would run into chill haze issues or the need to add adjunct to lower the FAN of the wort), in the middle "grey area" it's up to the brewer :beer:

 

[bconnery]

I can speak very highly of this one from sluggerdog that was in the QLD xmas case...



http://www.aussiehomebrewer.com/forum/inde...&recipe=260

 

[blackbock]

So is FAN good or bad? :unsure:

 

[T.D.]

A protein rest breaks down proteins into amino acids and shorter chains - increasing Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN) which is needed for the yeast to grow. Most modern malts have a high level of modification which basically means their TSN (total soluble nitrogen) is high - which means FAN should be high without doing a protein rest. Depends on the modification - less than 38 Kolbach probably needs a step mash or decoction, higher than 40 Kolbach there would be little need (and above 45 or so you would run into chill haze issues or the need to add adjunct to lower the FAN of the wort), in the middle "grey area" it's up to the brewer :beer:

:huh: Lucky I've already had my morning coffee... :lol:


Re the hopping of a Pils (I'm talking more about a *real* Pils, ie Bohemian ), what's everybody's view on late additions? Quite a few recipes and discussions I've seen don't advocate a hop addition after 20-30mins. Apparently Urquell's last addition is 40mins (or something like that). I've always put 1g/L or so in quite late in the boil (say 5mins). Now I'm wondering if this is the best way to hop a pilsner. Any thoughts?

 

[warrenlw63]

Very relevant T.D. and IIRC AndrewQld was saying he doesn't add any hops beyond 20 mins from flameout? (Andrew may comment here).

Sort of makes you wonder if we're all being too heavy handed with our flavour/aroma hops?

I've even heard from somewhere that escapes me that a good pilsner can be had by adding all of your hops (and no more) at the 30 minutes from flameout mark. Would requiure a lot of hops though.

FAN ?? Keep it for hot days. :lol:

Warren -

 

[therook]

:huh: Lucky I've already had my morning coffee... :lol:
Re the hopping of a Pils (I'm talking more about a *real* Pils, ie Bohemian ), what's everybody's view on late additions? Quite a few recipes and discussions I've seen don't advocate a hop addition after 20-30mins. Apparently Urquell's last addition is 40mins (or something like that). I've always put 1g/L or so in quite late in the boil (say 5mins). Now I'm wondering if this is the best way to hop a pilsner. Any thoughts?

T.D,

I know Andrew is big on the 60,40 and 20 minute additions, but i cant find his post

Maybe he will be able to answer for you.

Rook

Shit Warren, you beat me to it

 

[neonmeate]

Sort of makes you wonder if we're all being too heavy handed with our flavour/aroma hops?

if you want to make something along the lines of Warsteiner, Staropramen, etc (ie yellow and not too obtrusive on its way down your throat) then yes!
commercial breweries want to keep costs down ... we don't have to. IMO a good pilsener NEEDS hop aroma. and bitterness (like 35IBU at the very least). otherwise stick with yer james boags and hahn premium.

the other thing to consider is that breweries like PU have access to the best and freshest hops possible - we need to add a lot more hops to get the same aroma effect

 

[AndrewQLD]

T.D,

I know Andrew is big on the 60,40 and 20 minute additions, but i cant find his post

Maybe he will be able to answer for you.

Rook

Shit Warren, you beat me to it

Rook, here's a link to the thread you mentioned above hop additions, plenty of debate and info in there.

Cheers
Andrew