Best Ag Plisener Recipe? Malts, Hops, Yeast Etc?

[Zwickel]

Zwickel, out of interest what brand malts do you use for your Pilseners? Are there any malts available for you to use that we can't get? The only German malt available here is Weyermann. In the past people have used Hoepfner, but that's not available any more.

Weyermann would be fine, but Id say, just take whatever you may get.
Another important matter is the mash Ph, try to get down to 5,3-5,5.
Depends on your water, may be you have to use some sour malt to lower the Ph.

Looking at your mash schedule it looks like you make fairly dry Pilseners. I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the 52C step provides yeast with nutrition. I was under the impression that the 52C step was to break down haze-forming proteins?

DJR explained already everything, Im only interested in getting amino acids to support yeast grow, I dont have any issue with haze.

Cheers

 

[tangent]

i've had a long conversation with Zwickle over this topic and have changed some of my brewing practice for pilsners with excellent results already.
I'm still not step mashing to the extent that Zwickle does yet as i'd really like to use direct heat to step up like his brew-rig rather than infusions and decoctions like i do now with a plastic tun.

I now dough in at 63-64C and do an extended mashout that sits at about 69-70C for a while before sparging.
I don't use any crystal malts at all. Only a little melanoidin.
I don't use any flavour hops, just Tetts at 60 after a 30 minute boil (90 mins total) and Saaz at 1minute and flameout.
I re-circulate more and am transferring less gunk into the kettle.


edit - "German malts, German yeast. German noble hops (hallertauer, tettnanger etc) for German pils, Czech Saaz for Bo pils. Anything else is a second best in my opinion."GoatHerder <- exactly!

My current lagers and pilsners have been the best I've ever made so far, malty but dry. I woke up next to half a glass of it this morning

 

[neonmeate]

Im only interested in getting amino acids to support yeast grow, I dont have any issue with haze.

why not pitch more yeast in the first place? surely with a pilsener you want to minimise the yeast growth phase?

 

[Zwickel]

why not pitch more yeast in the first place? surely with a pilsener you want to minimise the yeast growth phase?

of course you may pitch a lot of yeast, but it makes a big difference just to have a lot of yeast in, or you have a little less yeast but in a very good health.

In case of over pitching the batch, you may get just a lot of slurry in the end, not sure your final gravity will reach the desired value and even the danger to get an autolysis will be high.

For example my batch starts wit an OG of 1048 and ends at <1008; if the yeast is not very viable, then it may end at >1012, even if you have used a lot of yeast.

Thats just from my experience.

Cheers :beer:

 

[Darren]

Zwickel.

FG 1.008 or FG 1.012 usually equates to mash temps rather than yeast health, especially with Wey malt.

Prefer a 1.012 pils myself.


cheers

Darren

EDIT: Unless you are pitching onto the yeast cake, over pitching a lager is almost impossible for the average HBer

 

[Zwickel]

Hi Darren,

especially homebrewers have long periods between the batches, meanwhile the yeast get stored in the fridge.
After a certain time the yeast is not very viable anymore, even if you have a a lot of it.
Anyway, even bottom fermenting yeasts dont like to work at very low temps, they get forced to it.
So only if the yeast is in good conditions, it will do theire work til the end.

To avoid any fermenting flaw, I do a 52C rest all the time, the yeast is very thankful for that.

Cheers :beer:

 

[goatherder]

How about just adding yeast nutrient Zwickel? Could you get the same results and skip the 52C rest?

 

[Zwickel]

How about just adding yeast nutrient Zwickel? Could you get the same results and skip the 52C rest?

hmmm... maybe youre right, I havent try that yet.
I wont say that a 52 rest will be indispensable, or will be urgently necessary, no, thats just a courtesy for my yeast.
It doesnt bother me to add 20min. to my my mash schedule, thats all.

Prost

 

[Darren]

Hi Darren,

especially homebrewers have long periods between the batches, meanwhile the yeast get stored in the fridge.
After a certain time the yeast is not very viable anymore, even if you have a a lot of it.
Anyway, even bottom fermenting yeasts dont like to work at very low temps, they get forced to it.
So only if the yeast is in good conditions, it will do theire work til the end.

To avoid any fermenting flaw, I do a 52C rest all the time, the yeast is very thankful for that.

Cheers :beer:

Aha,explains the 1.008 FG. The B amylase will be very active at those temps. No need for the rest unless you like dry beer (dont worry plenty here do). Myself I enjoy a malty beer. 1.012 sehr gu"t
Poor German I know.

cheers

darren

PS, Hazy beers taste better

 

[tangent]

1.008 is damn low!
a friend of mine is having problems with high FGs
some beers stopping at 1.020 or even higher.
Turns out his thermometer is 5C out! So his 66C mash is more like 71C

 

[johnno]

I made this a couple of years ago.
I'm pretty sure it is the Pilsner Urquell recipe out of Clone brews.

i missed my OG and volume as I had just started AG then, but a side by side comparison with an original was pretty close.

Type: All Grain
Date: 31/03/2005
Batch Size: 22.00 L
Brewer: Johnno
Boil Size: 28.31 L Asst Brewer: The 3 destroyers
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Johnno's equipment
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.0
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.25 kg Pilsner (Hoepfner) (3.3 EBC) Grain 89.3 %
0.45 kg Caramel Malt Light (Hoepfner) (25.6 EBC) Grain 9.5 %
0.06 kg Munich Malt (Hoepfner) (17.7 EBC) Grain 1.3 %
65.00 gm Saaz [3.50%] (90 min) Hops 28.0 IBU
35.00 gm Saaz [3.50%] (40 min) Hops 12.4 IBU
28.00 gm Saaz [3.00%] (3 min) Hops 1.2 IBU
0.50 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Pilsen Lager (Wyeast Labs #2007) Yeast-Lager


cheers
johnno

 

[randyrob]

What about something like this????

=======================================================


A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 25.00 Wort Size (L): 25.00
Total Grain (kg): 6.80
Anticipated OG: 1.051 Plato: 12.66
Anticipated EBC: 7.1
Anticipated IBU: 34.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.4 0.30 kg. CaraPilsner France 1.035 20
73.5 5.00 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.037 3
22.1 1.50 kg. TF Flaked Maize UK 1.040 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
30.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 2.50 9.8 60 min.
85.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 2.50 24.9 45 min.
25.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 2.50 0.0 0 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP800 Pilsner Lager

 

[agraham]

Thanks for the info zwickel, i may use a 52 degree step for the next pilsner on the menu.

 

[Darren]

Zwickel,

How are you raising your temps frpm 52 up to 66C? How long does it take?

You a filterer are you not? Would that not remove any protein haze anyhow?

Modern day malts don't need the 52 rest IMHO.

cheers

Darren

 

[Zwickel]

gday mates

Zwickel,

How are you raising your temps frpm 52 up to 66C? How long does it take?

Im just heating up by a gas burner; my software limits the ratio by 1/min.

You a filterer are you not? Would that not remove any protein haze anyhow?

so far Im filtering the half of my brews; for the other half Im doing an experiment right now, Im adding Kieselgur (dunno what the translation is). If there is time enough for maturing (>4 weeks), I dont need to filter the beer, the kieselgur does a great job, extremly clear beer.

Modern day malts don't need the 52 rest IMHO.

that may be true, on many books one can read so, but I get better results with doing the 52 rest.
There is a split opinion on that, some yeast lovers they swear on a 52 rest, some brewers not, may be a kind of philosophy.

In my case, I can see an obvious advantage and to say it in Aussie language: I love that little buggers

Cheers mates

 

[sluggerdog]

My latest and IMO in my top 2-3 pilsners (probably a little low on the IBU for some but it works for me)

You don't need to add in the Pale Malt, I was just trying to see if it made any difference, it didn't. Just substitute it for more Weyermann Pilsner.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 40.00 L
Boil Size: 45.13 L
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 9.0 EBC
Estimated IBU: 25.5 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5250.00 gm Pilsner (Weyermann) (3.3 EBC) Grain 65.2 %
2000.00 gm Pale Malt, Galaxy (Barrett Burston) (3.Grain 24.8 %
400.00 gm Melanoidin (Weyermann) (59.1 EBC) Grain 5.0 %
400.00 gm Wheat Malt, Malt Craft (Joe White) (3.5Grain 5.0 %
40.00 gm Saaz B [6.70%] (60 min) Hops 17.0 IBU
25.00 gm Saaz B [6.70%] (20 min) Hops 6.4 IBU
25.00 gm Saaz B [6.70%] (5 min) Hops 2.1 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
2.00 tsp Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 75.0 minMisc
1 Pkgs Copenhagen Lager Yeast (White Labs #WLPYeast-Lager

 

[hockadays]

Zwickel,

How are you raising your temps frpm 52 up to 66C? How long does it take?

You a filterer are you not? Would that not remove any protein haze anyhow?

Modern day malts don't need the 52 rest IMHO.

cheers

Darren

I found that weyermann bohemium Pils malt needed the 52degc rest as it's not as modified as the normal pils..When I didn't I always found chill haze but with the normal pils a single infusion worked just fine...just my experience though..

 

[grinder]

What about something like this????

=======================================================
A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (L): 25.00 Wort Size (L): 25.00
Total Grain (kg): 6.80
Anticipated OG: 1.051 Plato: 12.66
Anticipated EBC: 7.1
Anticipated IBU: 34.7
Brewhouse Efficiency: 60 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential EBC
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
4.4 0.30 kg. CaraPilsner France 1.035 20
73.5 5.00 kg. JWM Export Pilsner Australia 1.037 3
22.1 1.50 kg. TF Flaked Maize UK 1.040 0

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.
Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
30.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 2.50 9.8 60 min.
85.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 2.50 24.9 45 min.
25.00 g. Czech Saaz Pellet 2.50 0.0 0 min.
Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP800 Pilsner Lager

Looks like everybody is recommending step mash or decoction mash. Can you produce a good pils with a single infusion mash?

 

[Ross]

Looks like everybody is recommending step mash or decoction mash. Can you produce a good pils with a single infusion mash?

Absolutely Last years Qld State winner (gold medal) Pilsner & champion beer of show was a single infusion mash. It also went on to win the Pilsner class at ANAWBS. (Think it did pretty well in the Nationals as well). Unfortunately, it wasn't one of mine

cheers Ross

 

[Ray_Mills]

This is a great beer, and if you dont like this pilsener you just dont like beer hehe
This won the Nationals for me in 2004, and beer has not changed that much since then.
Ray



Category: 07. PALE LAGER
Style: North German Pilsener
Recipe Name: North German Pilsener # 2004
Brewer's Name: Ray Mills
Brewing Method: Mash
Starting Gravity: 1.050
Ending Gravity: 1.012
Alcohol (w/w%): 5%
Bitterness (IBU): 38.5
Colour (SRM): 3.6
Specification Comments: This beer should be a nice clean bitter Pilsener (a little more bitter than a normal Pilsener)
Simple to make and great tastes
Size of Batch: 22
Batch Size Unit: Liters
Extract Efficiency: 65%
Fermentables: 5.10 kg German Pils Malt
.28 kg Cara Pils
Hop Additions: 22 grams Perle 9.4% AA 90 minutes boil
25 grans Tettnanger 4.7% AA 20 minutes
17 grams Tettnanger 4.7% AA 5 minutes
Wort Preparation: Single infusion mash at 67 c for 90 minutes
Flood sparge of 45 minutes at 77 C
Boiling and Cooling: boil for 90 minutes
Yeast Information: White Labs WLP 800 Pilsener Lager
Make a starter
Fermentation Details: This is important
Ferment at 10 - 12 C for 18 days
Rest at 20C for 5 Days
Rack to secondary fermenter and lager for 4 - 5 weeks
Bottle keg as normal

Other Brewing Information: The hops are the secret to this beer and I love tettnanger
Competition Results: 1st Australian Nationl Competition 2004