Any point cleaning a keg that's going to be refilled straight away

[butisitart]

the trick is that you can occasionally skip some things, regularly skip some things, and never skip some things. my reverse flow wort chiller, for example is on the 'never never skip' list. my airlocks are pretty low on the danger list unless i've had a fermentation blowout. etc etc

 

[rude]

jeez this thread has gone on lol

I recon you should bottle you're next batch then you will be glad to clean you're keg

Will this post make 5 pages

 

[Blind Dog]

I never have and never will understand why any brewer would knowingly skimp on cleaning. If you get an infection it's not just one batch you lose, you risk a persistent issue that can drive you near insane trying to track down the source. And it won't be the keg you didn't clean, although you'll assume that is the cause and the sole source, but the bugs don't obligingly sit in one place waiting for you to find them. Oh no. They're nasty, villainous creatures who'll get into every fitting, hose, tap, nook and cranny. And they're resiliant barstewards too.

The buggers will quickly take over your life and every waking moment will be consumed with plans to exterminate the blighters. And don't even think about sleep as they'll haunt your dreams as well...

 

[Feldon]

As someone else posted earlier, if brewers can dump a fresh batch of unfermented wort on top of an old yeast cake in a 'dirty' fermentor, then I can't see why the OP can't just rinse the old keg out and put in more beer.

After all, unfermented wort has zero alcohol, is higher in dissolved oxygen, is high in sugars that microbes can feed on, and is at a much warmer temp conducive to microbes breeding. Contrast this to fully fermented beer put in to the 'dirty' keg -, higher in alcohol, almost zero O2, stuff all food remaining for microbes to feed on, and the keg goes into a bloody cold fridge. So what's the problem?

And what's all this puritan zeal about sanitation. It has its place, but so too does common sense.

As for the mantra that 'cutting corners' is the ultimate sin, the same point of view was levelled at the first BIABers when they reduced 3 vessel systems to one vessel.

 

[manticle]

The OP can do whatever he likes. His keg.
I respect the majority of your posts and I respect the fact you may disagree (hell I've done it - just didn't need to ask permission) but I wouldn't suggest it is anything other than what it is - slack with potential risks involved. By all means take the risks but understand you are doing so. I wouldn't recommend dumping on an entire cake either - again done it, might do it again one day, fairly aware of what can go wrong.
Nothing like BIAB and no zeal.

 

[manticle]

Tell you what.
Empty a keg, leaving behind that small amount of liquid and sludge you normally get. Leave the lid on, some gas if you like.
Taste the liquid at 2 days, 5 days; 10 days.


If nothing untoward creeps in, your processes are so amazing, you probably never need to clean a keg again.

 

[real_beer]

A lot of home brewing systems these days are so sophisticated and professional they stand on par with commercial premises. It just doesn't make any sense to me after spending all your time and money into lovingly building a fantastic system like that to then look at trying to cut out the most important process for continued success of a high quality product.

When brewing beer I want everything to be like when I first brought my wife and newborn daughters home from hospital, a sparkling clean house, bedroom, cot, etc. I like my system to sparkle, clean grain mill, clean water, clean mashtun, clean boiler, everything lovingly prepared to create a beautiful beverage. And then probably the most important thing to me is to have a shiny pristine home ready for it to live in until I'm ready to enjoy it. I brew and cook with love and happiness cast into the pot and because of that its never been a chore to keep things clean!

Its taken years for the general public to get over the army of grubs and grotts who proudly said 'Here mate, try this I brewed it myself'. I still meet people who recoil in horror when you mention home brewing because they tried some 20 years ago and were so disgusted they can't be tempted to try again. People used to make all sorts of reasons up for why it tasted like crap, but I can tell you the main one was that when you saw how most people were making a batch back then it was mainly due to filthy hygiene.

4 to 5 hours spent making 20litres of beer and then wanting to save 5 minutes cleaning a keg is bad because like Manticle said earlier "The row, if you call it that is not just for your benefit - it's for anyone curious about whether corner cutting is a good idea". If someone messes up their first batch of beer due to bad hygiene advice they might be lost to the hobby for good, and that really would be a shame.

I think its great when people discuss and try to find better and more efficient ways to clean brewing equipment, some of the inventions in beer line cleaners, keg and bottle washers are brilliant, but remember they're not trying to take away anything of the required cleaning process, they're just try to make the job easier.

http://ethesis.helsinki.fi/julkaisut/maa/skemi/vk/storgards/processh.pdf
See section on page 23: 2.2.3 Contamination of beer dispensing systems
And anyyone unhappy about cleaning should remember it's possible to drink a huge variety of excellent beers these days without doing any cleaning at all by visiting the local bottle shop. :beer:

 

[adryargument]

Meh, if you do it right it's not an issue.

How long is the keg going to last? A week before its empty? Why clean it... The co2 layer will inhibit growth for that long.

Same with chiller plates. I wash mine out after and before use with plain water. If they pass the smell test they are good to go. After all your sterilising it by recirculating boiling water through it!

In terms of brewery tubing pots fittings pumps? Nah. It's all before the Boil.

Saying that my last 120l have been pristine clean in taste... And that was after I ran out of sanitiser!

 

[loomx]

Don't be a filthy ****, clean your keg! if you have time to post on here about it you have time to clean a keg. Coming from a commercial brewer, we have a specific cleaning regiment with our bright tanks. filtered beers get a good rinse then sanitise, anything else get's a full CIP before anything touches it. we don't do it for fun, we do it because it needs to be done.

 

[Grott]

If you have diarrhea do you re-use the paper?! Clean your kegs, is that hard.

 

[jyo]

Meh, if you do it right it's not an issue.

How long is the keg going to last? A week before its empty? Why clean it... The co2 layer will inhibit growth for that long.

I have beers in my kegs now that are now coming up to 4 months old. A decent stout can be in my fridge for 8 months.

 

[slcmorro]

Great. So after 4 pages (2 of which are nothing but jostling, piss and wind), the overwhelming consensus is - clean your kegs, regardless.

Can we move on to creating world peace now?

 

[bear09]

Love a relevant post I can relate to.... I did this just the other night.

Emptied keg and had a little cry about it (its totally normal to be upset when you open the tap to see only foam come out... right?)

• Started timer....
• Disconnected keg and rinsed with hot water from the tap 3 times. Fill kitchen kettle with 2l of water and start it.
• Couple of liters in with some iodaphor and shake it all about. Push this solution through lines. Rinse keg in hot water again.
• Pour in boiling kettle. Lid on and shake it all about - whole keg gets what feels like RED HOT. Fittings, pipes the whole lot. Push boiling water through lines. Refill with C02 a couple of times to purge.
• Rack conditioned beer from glass carboy into keg.
• Clean up.
• Stop timer.

Process above took me 34 mins in total and I have done this many times without infection. I only do it 2 times in row max before full oxypher soak and break down.

Your way can probably be done in 15-20 mins. Saving 10-15 mins for the purpose of losing 6 hours worth of All Grain BSAT (blood sweat etc) - not worth it.

 

[mje1980]

I've often just cleaned my kegs with boiling water a few times between refills. Slack I know, never had an issue but it's definitely taking a risk.

 

[stux]

If I'm turning around a keg like this, I'll rinse it out with some hot tap water to get the gunk out, then fill it with a kettle of boiling water.

Give it a good shake, the pressure/steam generated is enough to then push out boiling water through the gas and liquid disconnects (when briefly attached). I might also allow the PRV to expel some boiling water... but that's tricky and risks burns.
Careful, the keg gets hot! Helps to know how to handle them by the rubber bits

Should be relatively clean, and sanitized then. Takes less time than boiling the kettle.

Dump the boiling water, and fill with beer. I'll normally shoot a few L of C02 into the keg first... from a spare gas line on the keg fridge, seems to help lessen oxidisation of the beer.

 

[Rocker1986]

My first keg blew dry on Saturday, and yes bear I think it's totally normal to be upset about this. I was so upset I went to a beer festival and sampled quite a few... :lol:

Anyway, straight after it emptied I decided to clean it. Turned off the gas, disconnected the keg etc.. rinsed it out a few times with hot tap water, then mixed up some sodium perc in it with hot water, pushed that through the line/tap, another rinse or two, then filled up with just hot water and pushed that through the line/tap as well. Gas off, vented pressure, and have just left the keg closed up with the remaining CO2 still in it since.

My question is, is the keg fine to simply open and fill with beer when it's ready? Or would it be a good idea to at least boil the kettle and give it a quick rinse (line/tap as well) beforehand? No issue of course to do that, but just curious since it's already been cleaned and not been opened since.

 

[mje1980]

Mate, I wouldn't admit to anything less than surgical level sanitation round these parts
















Just kidding, do what you want. But the right way would be to clean it and sanitise it first

 

[Spohaw]

I hear urine is sterile , could rinse out a keg with that



Haha ha

 

[Rocker1986]

:lol: I'll pass on the urine I think...

Anyway, I'll give it a hit with boiling water and some Starsan before filling it. Rather do that than end up with infected beer. :blink:

 

[manticle]

Urine =Sterile* but not a steriliser.

Which is good because otherwise someone trying to save $1.50 and 3 secs of time probably would not only do it but spend 45 mins arguing in a thread about what a great idea it is.

*when it comes out.