50L Keggle & 3 ring gas burner cinder / besser block stand, SAFE?

[DJ_L3ThAL]

So I've searched for a spec sheet on the cinder/besser concrete blocks sold at the big green shed, but have been unsuccessful in finding what temperature they are "rated" to, if any?

Until I can organise a friend and his welder to build a better stand for my keggle and burner, I am planning on brewing with one of the two setups in the attached photos. The first one is my preferred because the keggle is far more stable, but I am worried about the heat on the cinder blocks and if this will damage them or even cause them to explode like what people have seen happen to garage floors. The second method the keggle is not quite stable on my burner, although with the weight when full with water/wort/grain I believe it may be stable enough, the bonus being it removes the heat on cinder block potential risk?

Basically does anyone know if the first arrangement will be fine with these blocks, can they tolerate flame/heat so close to them for extended periods like a full brew day?

 

[RelaxedBrewer]

Do you have a BBQ? I have seen some people just put their burner on their grill and then their keg on top.

 

[adryargument]

If in doubt, option two, at least nothing will crack as the heat output is up.
Option one, if something does crack, your jumping boiling wort

Edit: not liable for anything, except internet bullying

 

[WarmBeer]

Go option 2, but replace the top layer with standard house bricks.

These are kiln fired to in excess of 800 deg C, so your little 3-ring isn't going to even raise a sweat on them.

 

[bradsbrew]

Why so high?

 

[Yob]

From memory, besser blocks are also fired.. We used to have a besser block incinerator in the bank yard and never had issues with it.

Burn with abandon for my take on it

 

[WarmBeer]

Why so high?

I'd say he plans on draining into either a cube, or a Willow jerry.

 

[bradsbrew]

I'd say he plans on draining into either a cube, or a Willow jerry.

Blocks are 200 high, surely 400 is high enough for a cube?

 

[Cocko]

Option 2.

In particular if you have another one of those thinner ones just to lift it up that tiny bit more.

Reasons: 1: Op 1, your flame will lap and not burn 'blue' as easily. 2: You can position you keggle as to avoid the heat or flame rising into your tap, trust me, it doesn't take much to melt the inner seal with a burner.

2c.

Lastly and IMPORTANT: either way, please check the bottom fold ring of the keg has holds drilled in it. I remember reading about one that exploded.



EDIT: What BB said above.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Do you have a BBQ? I have seen some people just put their burner on their grill and then their keg on top.

Prefer to brew just inside the garage, BBQ is on the deck and a PITA to move down to garage as different levels!

Go option 2, but replace the top layer with standard house bricks.

These are kiln fired to in excess of 800 deg C, so your little 3-ring isn't going to even raise a sweat on them.

Can do that, hopefully have enough around the block to make a layer.

Blocks are 200 high, surely 400 is high enough for a cube?

Yep you're right, I just guesstimated when at the green shed today, if I put it two cinder blocks high with a layer of house bricks on top that should be plenty

2: You can position you keggle as to avoid the heat or flame rising into your tap, trust me, it doesn't take much to melt the inner seal with a burner.


Lastly and IMPORTANT: either way, please check the bottom fold ring of the keg has holds drilled in it. I remember reading about one that exploded.

My keggle has a small rounded flat bottom (about 50mm in diameter) which is sitting on the inner ring of the gas burner, hence why it isn't perfectly stable as it does not contact the outer ring supports. By positioning the keggle to avoid heat into the tap do you mean slightly tilting the keggle, if so I don't think that will work with mine as the resting position of the keggle is on the burners inner ring supports. Thoughts??

Yes the bottom lip has both 4x small (~3mm) in the actual lip itself as well as 4x "gaps" between the main body of the keggle and the lip where they join. I'm guessing that either or both of those is what you are referring to?



Also does anyone know if the keggle can sit comfortably on the burners inner ring support? I suppose I could tap the bottom of the keggle in slightly so that it makes contact with the outer supports on the burner, anyone had experience with doing that for better support?

 

[Camo6]

Be sure to stagger them blocks if you do go 3 high. Last thing you want is 40l of hot wort tipping.

Have you considered an old steel rim for a base? Pretty sure Yob had a few pics of his somewhere.

 

[Cocko]

My keggle has a small rounded flat bottom (about 50mm in diameter) which is sitting on the inner ring of the gas burner, hence why it isn't perfectly stable as it does not contact the outer ring supports. - SEE BOLD

By positioning the keggle to avoid heat into the tap do you mean slightly tilting the keggle, if so I don't think that will work with mine as the resting position of the keggle is on the burners inner ring supports. Thoughts?? - No, I mean, just turn your keggle so the tap is over the bricks or to the side, so the flame/heat can't lap on the tap. It has happened to me and I know of 2 other brewers who have done the same... and I don't know many brewers.

Yes the bottom lip has both 4x small (~3mm) in the actual lip itself as well as 4x "gaps" between the main body of the keggle and the lip where they join. I'm guessing that either or both of those is what you are referring to? - yes, most kegs have them but better to be safe the shrapnel ridden.

Post pics of how it ends up!

Cheers

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Be sure to stagger them blocks if you do go 3 high. Last thing you want is 40l of hot wort tipping.

Have you considered an old steel rim for a base? Pretty sure Yob had a few pics of his somewhere.

They are quite stable stacked straight though, but to be safe will offset the bottom two slightly so the top layer of house bricks are flush.

The best house bricks are the ones with the three holes in them yea? I've only got the ones with no holes and "dimples" on each side, which from memory are for paving edges / small walls etc. Are those kiln fired worst case I can't get three hole type bricks?

Post pics of how it ends up!

Cheers

Will definitely do! Hoping this Sunday will be my first full volume AG BIAB!

 

[DU99]

:icon_offtopic: i had a small BBQ made from those blocks...

 

[OzPaleAle]

Maybe you could use some Cement sheet between the blocks and the burner for a layer of insulation from direct heat. I think they use that as an insulation layer on the base of pizza ovens under the fire bricks.
That way if the cement sheet fails you can turn it off and still have the integrity of the blocks.

 

[431neb]

The cement sheet is a good idea. I know from personal experience that 2 layers of cement sheet will insulate some plywood from the underside of a 3 ring burner for more than an hour with only some minor scorching to the timber. I'm not suggesting you do that (at all!) but the cement sheet is a good insulator for that purpose. That said, I think your plan is fine.

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

How thick are we talking for cement sheet? Does the big green shed stock it? Looking at their website it only comes in minimum 1sqm size, so how would I cut this to size (or does it need a special cutter at their trade desk?).

Interesting DU99, I suppose if your BBQ was fine and didn't crack from the heat, surely a 3-ring burner will put out less heat that a 4 burner BBQ running for an hour?? I do however not like being a guinea pig so not super keen to just test the setup without some prior education!

 

[OzPaleAle]

I haven't had much do do with cement sheet but my understanding from a mate when I was thinking of building a pizza oven was that you can just score it with a stanley knife and then snap it, I think there is a tool for cutting it also but probably not worth buying for a one off project.
Not sure on the size but i used an offcut on the weekend my father in law had lying around of about 5mm stuff to put between a pie warmer with an electric element on the bottom and a laminate table and it did the job.

 

[OzPaleAle]

Perhaps something like this, not too pricey and probably a good width for the blocks.

http://www.bunnings.com.au/bgc-2400-x-450-x-4-5mm-durasheet-fc-lining-1-05sqm_p0710034

 

[DJ_L3ThAL]

Awesome, with that size sheet probably worth just making it two or three thicknesses to err on safe side. Won't get that into my car so hopefully the green men can chop it at least in half for me!

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I need some boiled and cooled water for yeast sample rinsing etc so will run the setup for that as a test of the boil off rate also this week and will post photos of the setup