45Kg Gas Bottles (Melb. ONLY)

[MartinOC]

Gents,

Further to this thread: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/82918-eoi-45kg-lpg-bottles-melb-only/

I've got current firm interest in another 7 bottles & only need two more to make a pallet & get them direct from the manufacturer.

I haggled for $250 each because I ordered 6 last time from a retailer, but if we go direct to the manufacturer, I can get them for about $205 each (that includes delivery - subject to confirmation).

These bottles are manufactured with an automotive LPG connector, so can be filled direct from a servo without any adapter hoses required. You just connect-up & put a MAX of 85 Litres in them. Piccie of the bottles here: http://bluelpg.com.au/shop/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=385

I've already got 2 of my own & don't need any more, I'm only doing this 'cos others have expressed further interest.

First-in, best dressed!!

MartinOC - 7

 

[Mardoo]

Is there an adaptor available to attach burners, or does the automotive fitting screw off?

 

[MartinOC]

The two-way valve on top of the cylinder is manufactured & supplied as a single unit. No need to remove it & no adapters required.

To fill the cylinder, you use the Automotive connection on the top (large yellow cap in the piccie linked-to above).

To draw from the cylinder, you just screw your normal regulator into the outlet (pointing towards the camera in the pic) & turn on the tap, just like a regular BBQ bottle.

 

[shaunous]

Auto LPG is different to normal LPG and should not be used for heating and BBQ'ing.


But you probably already knew this and people do it anyway, so carry on regardless.

 

[MartinOC]

Auto LPG is different to normal LPG and should not be used for heating and BBQ'ing.


But you probably already knew this and people do it anyway, so carry on regardless.

Yep! The Propane/Butane mix is different, but it still works fine (slightly less "heat energy" from Auto LPG), you just burn a little bit more gas to get the same result. However, when you do the numbers on owning a cylinder vs. renting, it's a no-brainer (ask anyone with a "contract" with any of the big suppliers).

I'm going to leave this BB offer open until the end of next week (ie. 24/4/15) & if there's no interest in the other two cylinders, I'll just go ahead & haggle another deal with the retailer I used last time.

 

[woodwormm]

Aren't servos "funny" about you filling cylinders not fitted to cars?

Anyone with these ever had issues at the pump?

 

[MartinOC]

"Funny" as in "Ha-ha", "Peculiar", "Ridiculous" or "Stupid"? Or "Option E - "All of the above"?....

From all my research, it's legal everywhere except Australia. However, most people try to take their "regular" tanks & use an adaptor hose to jump from the Auto POL connection to their tanks & try to fill them upright using the bleed valve (which obviously releases flammable vapours!). The ones I'm proposing come direct from the manufacturer with the POL connector/valve already fitted. You just make sure that they're completely empty before filling & pump no more than 85 Litres into them (80L to be absolutely sure you're under the 80% max-fill).

Neither I nor anyone else who has these tanks (that I know-of) has had a problem filling them at a servo (you just need to be discreet, of course!). If there are any questions, you can show them the POL valve & say "That's what the manufacturer intended for them".

 

[woodwormm]

I'm now wondering about sourcing that valve for my 9 kg bottles

 

[Mardoo]

The company MartinOC linked to in the first post sells them IIRC.

Edit: Yep, although at $77 it'd likely be worth it to just buy one of these cylinders.

http://bluelpg.com.au/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=167

 

[zwitter]

I am in Sydney or would be in on this in a flash.

But I will point out that there can be deadly consequences when using the butane propane mix for hearing etc in cold climates. It was a few years back and some campers were found dead in their tent one cold morning. Eventually a scientist pointed out the different freezing temperatures of the gases. The campers had turned the gas up full to try and heat the tent. The cylinder cooled to the point of freezing the liquid gas with warmer freezing point into a solid. Campers fell asleep and the other gas ran out and flame went out. Then the gas that had frozen thawed out and filled the tent and as it is heavier than air it suffocated the campers.

I read this in a fire fighters magazine some years back.

I know in the UK they allow auto gas to be used for cooking in campers. But their heating fuel is dyed so it can be detected if used in cars as fuel due to tax excise.

I would have thought the tax on auto fuel would make it to expensive..... But I have bought welding gas cylinders for similar cost reasons.

James


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[MartinOC]

It was a few years back and some campers were found dead in their tent one cold morning. Eventually a scientist pointed out the different freezing temperatures of the gases. The campers had turned the gas up full to try and heat the tent. The cylinder cooled to the point of freezing the liquid gas with warmer freezing point into a solid. Campers fell asleep and the other gas ran out and flame went out. Then the gas that had frozen thawed out and filled the tent and as it is heavier than air it suffocated the campers.

I read this in a fire fighters magazine some years back.

That's some VERY hardy campers, mate!!! Butane freezes (liquid to solid) at -138°C and propane at -187°C. Lowest temperature ever recorded at ground-level on planet earth was -89.2C.

Campers usually use/carry Butane, because weight-for-weight, it delivers about 12% more energy than Propane.

Question for you: In this firefighter's magazine - was it published on the 1st of April perhaps? Or maybe it also included an article about firefighters finding a scuba-diver in an area burnt-out by a bushfire......?

Edit: world record stuff added.

 

[vic45]

There are many reasons why you would need to be "discreet" filling these cylinders at a servo,this is one of them. It explains the tent danger in zwitter's post.

From the elgas info blog.

. Propane boils at around -42°C, so it would need to be really cold for it to not vapourise. Butane, on the other hand, boils at about -1°C, so you could wake up on a cold winter morning with no working gas. No fun at all!

 

[MartinOC]

Ah, FFS! I'm being trolled by a bunch of wankers who clearly don't understand the difference between BOILING & FREEZING temperatures of the two gasses involved, but I'll take the bait for the purposes of clarity & to assuage the total fuckwits who have no intention of being part of the proposed BB purchase anyway:

YES! Propane BOILS at -42C & Butane BOILS at -1C. That means they're VAPOURS/GAS at those temperatures (ie. they're still burnable!)... They don't FREEZE until you reach AT LEAST -138C.

NOW do you get it???

Don't believe everything you read on a website run by a retailer that wants to sell you their product by publishing false/misleading information.

BTW, anyone who wants to brew at -138C & gets pissed-off because there's no gas available will have my undying admiration... :super:
BB cylinder offer is still open until next Friday for those who are sensible enough to understand what they're buying & why.....

EDIT: If you're not interested, don't post a reply. Thank you!

 

[vic45]

Yes, I do get it and before you call me a fuckwit again learn what does or doesn't happen to butane at temperatures around 0 deg c.

 

[MartinOC]

Yes, I do get it and before you call me a fuckwit again learn what does or doesn't happen to butane at temperatures around 0 deg c.

Unless you can explain it to me in simplistic terms where the scientific facts show me to be wrong, I'll happily continue to consider you to be a complete, total, unmitigated & utter FUCKWIT! And a troll. As will everyone else reading this thread.

Do some research, please, before you dig yourself a great big hole in the ground forever & disappear into it...

 

[manticle]

You want to discuss this stuff, sensibly so everyone can read and understand - no problem.
You want to call each other names and act like you're three then expect the thread to get locked
Your choice guys.

 

[manticle]

And if filling these is actually illegal, regardless of whether it's discreet/overlooked, it's not going to be sanctioned on this forum. There are guidelines that specify this which is why there's always a hooha about distillation topics. If these cylinders are not 100% legit from empty to full martin, please be as transparent as possible and take off list. Will give this 24 hours before closing for a case to be made.

 

[QldKev]

I *think* the point of the campers maybe should had said it turned to a liquid, maybe not solid. Hence it dropped below the boiling point of -1c.

We all know gas bottles get very cold when you crank the flow up, especially around the base. It's the reason I ended up using separate bottles per burner when I was using my 150,000btu burners. More than 1 burner running hard would freeze up the bottle too much. I could freeze the bottom half of a bottle on a 30c day with 2 burners running. I've run out of gas, swapped bottles over, and found 1/3 of a bottle left in the original bottle once it warmed up. Even with 1 burner per bottle I could still freeze up the outside of the bottle. I think -1c would be easily achieved on a cold night with a burner/heater running hard.

If the gas did turn to a liquid (not a solid, so below the boiling point but still above the freezing point), then it would take up much less space and no longer push it self out of the bottle. Hence the gas flow stops, which means flame out, and without the flow helping extra cooling the bottle would indeed start defrosting. Once the liquid resumes state as a gas then it can recommence flowing again.

I too would like to know the legality of these bottles being filled at a servo.

 

[MartinOC]

I apologise for my kurt & acerbic responses to some of the previous posters, but I find little sport engaging in a battle of wits with people who are clearly unarmed.

For clarity, these cylinders are 100% legit. All the details of their intended use are in my first post on the original thread: http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/82918-eoi-45kg-lpg-bottles-melb-only/

If people decide to use a different method of filling them (ie. DIY), then they should be aware that this is actually illegal in Australia. Caveat Emptor. I apologise for discussing illegal activity on the forum, but I can't now edit previous posts to remove the details. I shall cease & desist.

 

[GrumpyPaul]

But I will point out that there can be deadly consequences when using the butane propane mix for hearing etc in cold climates. It was a few years back and some campers were found dead in their tent one cold morning. Eventually a scientist pointed out the different freezing temperatures of the gases. The campers had turned the gas up full to try and heat the tent. The cylinder cooled to the point of freezing the liquid gas with warmer freezing point into a solid. Campers fell asleep and the other gas ran out and flame went out. Then the gas that had frozen thawed out and filled the tent and as it is heavier than air it suffocated the campers.

You're gonna need a bloody big tent to go camping with one of these 45kg cylinders.....that's some serious camping