3711 French Saison Yeast

[benken25]

Hi all i plan on brewing a saison this weekend. This will be the first time i have brewed this style <_< Im going to pitch 4711 fench saison yeast i have read on the wyeast website to ferment form 18 to 25 but i have heard of people brewing saisons at 30'c. what is the general consensus on this yeasts fementaion temp? Has anyone had any experince with this yeast?

Cheers Ben :chug:

 

[Lecterfan]

The threads going up to 30c are generally for Belgian Saision wy3724 which I have not personally used (although the smack pack in the fridge has been screaming at me for months now). A search will give you all the relevant details (tends to stall at a certain gravity and then needs to sit for a few weeks at a higher temp).

Wy3711 does not need to go that high...it will attenuate like crazy, throw all the tart, farmhouse flavours etc you want within the temp range specified. I pitch at 18c and let it go.

I have done several brews with this; plenty of brewers I trust have commented kindly on the resulting beers. One of them recently scored just over 109 points in Vicbrew (haven't read the feedback yet. I know that isn't a huge score, but not bad for a super basic grist and a completely hassle free yeast).

Tony has (relatively) recently commented that post-ferment blending of saisons with the two yeasts is magnificent (search for the Bullshead summer saison thread). I will try this in the future (tangent - I bottle %70 of my brews and I blend like crazy in the glass to mix and experiment, makes fantastic flavours...any good for research/brewing technique? Dunno... ANy good for drinking? yep).


I have tasted awesome brews done with wy3724 - as I said am yet to use it myself - but for me, I love the tartness and the dry mouthfeel of wy3711. Get into it.

 

[benken25]

The threads going up to 30c are generally for Belgian Saision wy3724 which I have not personally used (although the smack pack in the fridge has been screaming at me for months now). A search will give you all the relevant details (tends to stall at a certain gravity and then needs to sit for a few weeks at a higher temp).

Wy3711 does not need to go that high...it will attenuate like crazy, throw all the tart, farmhouse flavours etc you want within the temp range specified. I pitch at 18c and let it go.

I have done several brews with this; plenty of brewers I trust have commented kindly on the resulting beers. One of them recently scored just over 109 points in Vicbrew (haven't read the feedback yet. I know that isn't a huge score, but not bad for a super basic grist and a completely hassle free yeast).

Tony has (relatively) recently commented that post-ferment blending of saisons with the two yeasts is magnificent (search for the Bullshead summer saison thread). I will try this in the future (tangent - I bottle %70 of my brews and I blend like crazy in the glass to mix and experiment, makes fantastic flavours...any good for research/brewing technique? Dunno... ANy good for drinking? yep).


I have tasted awesome brews done with wy3724 - as I said am yet to use it myself - but for me, I love the tartness and the dry mouthfeel of wy3711. Get into it.

Thanks for the reply i think i will pitch at 18 and keep it under 25. I have read some the bullshead saison recipe threat. im looking forward to this batch sounds like it will be good for summer

 

[manticle]

Anything over 100 is a score to be proud of.

As for 3711 - it will taste good run hot but doesn't need to be pushed like the 3724.

3724 will actually stall if allowed to cool much below 28-30. I use 3711 in summer and just let it run naturally - no issues with stalling, no bad off flavours, tastes like saison, receives good feedback, does well in comps etc, etc.

To get the esters, it probably needs not to be kept at 18 the whole way but I've never used it that way. For me it's an easy yeast - summer hits, pitch and let her run.

Used with the right noble hops (hallertauer for example) I get lots of nice, tart lemon flavours. Should finish quite dry (around 1006 for me mostly with a hochhurz style mash))

 

[bconnery]

I love 3711. Used hot, I've let it go around the 30s, but not much higher than that although I believe others have.
I love the finish. It gets easily to 1006 and below with a single infusion type mash for me when fermented in the mid to late 20s, preferably late.
I find it isn't as prone to stalling at lower temps too. I've used it in stouts, and a bitter in cooler temps where a little higher finish, it tends not to go down under the 1010s when fermented cooler in my experience, and the smooth mouthfeel this yeast often gives make for a great beer.
I haven't used the other saison yeasts, well once, in a bitter for a club yeast experiment, but I just keep coming back to this one for the overall flavours and ease of use.

 

[sink cut]

hello 3711 users. are there any issues with underpitching this yeast? I want to pitch 51 Liters at 1046 with a single smack pack - usually I'd use 2 packs but only have 1. Cannot be bothered culturing unless I really have to.

thanks

david

 

[manticle]

Can't help. I never deliberately underpitch anything.

 

[sink cut]

not planning to underpitch because I want to.. Just L A Z Y, and I know this yeast has a reputation as being unstoppable.

 

[tazman1967]

Ill have a go..
Ive used both of the Wyeast Saisons, Both are great, I prefer the French just because of the flavours it gives off.
I think that IMHO that under pitching the yeast will result in more esters flavours coming through.

Cheers
Peter

 

[Charst]

not planning to underpitch because I want to.. Just L A Z Y, and I know this yeast has a reputation as being unstoppable.

Not sure how you could go through the effort to brew 50 litres of wort and not be bothered to make a starter.
if it comes out poor as a result you'll have 50 litres of shit to drink rather than a potential 50 of a ripper.

Proper pitching rates have taken my beer from hit and miss to enjoyable everytime.

things still need dialling in mind you but since doing proper starters and pitching rates my beers are heaps better.

EDIT: FWIW Ive only used 3711 once, underpitched, (I started at 18 for 3 days and ramped to 25 over a week), beer took months to condition properly, the last bottle was fantastic, but there was some less than quaffable longnecks in the process.

 

[Mardoo]

Used with the right noble hops (hallertauer for example) I get lots of nice, tart lemon flavours. Should finish quite dry (around 1006 for me mostly with a hochhurz style mash))

Wondering what Manticle meant by hochhurz led me to this rather awesome description and site http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?t...nfusion_Mashing

Thanks Mr. M!

 

[Fents]

got a keg of saison with 3711 on tap at the moment, initally i was underwelmed by the lack of saison esters, just tasted like a wheat beer imo. then as the keg is ageing its changing a fair bit.

i let mine go up to about 24-25c.

Had a taste of the chevaliar saision last night at the fed square showcase and compared it to mine and they are both very very close. i wish more breweries would do saison's i know red hill have just bottled their first im pretty sure.

am going to use the belg saision yeast in the next one though to compare.

if anyone in melb wants some 3711 i have a heap of slurry freshly harvested.

 

[Adam Howard]

I have 40L fermenting at the moment, stepped an old packet up in a 2L starter and then into 4L in a demijohn. Split the yeast into the two fermenters and BAM was off like a rocket. Got down to 1006 in 4-5 days, going to leave it for another few days before crashing. Unfortunately samples have been tasted at 25 degrees which isn't an accurate temp to try it at but it's tasting awesome. Used 3724 last year and hated how finicky it was. Will be trying it again soon though with heatbelt and temp control.

 

[Steve@PMF82]

I quite enjoy 3711, interesting comment from fents about it tasting like a wheat beer. I got comments in vicbrew from 1 judge that it was not like a saison, more of a Belgian wit.

I have 3724 on hand as well and i was thinking for the next brew i might pitch 3724 let it go for a couple of days, let the temp drop to around 25 then pitch some 3711 to finish it off.

I dont see why this could not work well? Anyone done similar?

 

[Dave70]

Hi all i plan on brewing a saison this weekend.

Weird kind of parallel universe thing going on here. Me to. And I'm also using 3711. Chose it over 3724 so I can dump a batch of Belgian pale straight on top.

 

[Bizier]

I quite enjoy 3711, interesting comment from fents about it tasting like a wheat beer. I got comments in vicbrew from 1 judge that it was not like a saison, more of a Belgian wit.

I have 3724 on hand as well and i was thinking for the next brew i might pitch 3724 let it go for a couple of days, let the temp drop to around 25 then pitch some 3711 to finish it off.

I dont see why this could not work well? Anyone done similar?

That is what I'm doing. I've had a brew chilled to drop the 3724 for reuse as a primary strain. I will pitch 3711 today.

I like 3711 alone, but the esters from 3724 are just so gorgeous.

I've read plenty about using both in tandem. Commercial brewers do it.

For the record, I did a saison earlier in year with 3711 and it was disappointing UNTIL I worked out it was a cracking golden strong. That is something you can do well with this yeast.

 

[Bizier]

For the record I have just got a 1.057 saison wort from harvested 3724 down to around 1.025 in around 12 hours - I think the key was a large viable pitch and 15-20 mins with a sanitary airstone. I have moved it to the attic area of the house on a 30 degree day, so I am hoping that it will finish off by itself quite shortly.

I just moved the first batch onto some 3711 and some old lambic slurry to finish the remaining 1.035, I also added 20g of untoasted American oak. The 3711 did seem to kick out some isoamyl acetate, which I did get when I brewed a saison which was more like a BGS, but I prefer the wild and funky flavours I have got from it in the past, perhaps with rougher treatment (nutrients, O2 or heat?) - My notes for a double batch indicate I fermented one part at 14C and the other at 30C, but I did not make notes on the differences. It obviously will ferment down that low though.

 

[NDH]

I'm just crash chilling my French Saison now, first time I have made a saison and I have to say I'm a bit supprised. Getting very pronounced banana flavour and very litte of the spice and cloves I had mid ferment. I kept it relatively cool around the 19 degree mark for 2 weeks and got it down to 1008 but the banana is consistent with a warm fermented Hefe. I certainly see what people are saying bout mouth feel and it will be quite dry once carbed up and cold.

Curious about using some slurry for a belgian srong or something? I don't usually harvest yeast but I would like to get my money's worth with the smack pack.

cheers

NDH