2008 Nsw Xmas Case

[Tony]

Just went and tasted it........ a fair bit of it to really get the taste and it tastes fine to be honest. Its a bloody good beer!

But its got this funny white layer on top and smells like paint and petrol from the top.

I cant detect any of this smell in the beer from the tap? Its clean!

God i wish i had a few of the 7000 beer judges in the valley on hand to get a second opinion.

Ohhhhh i dont know what to do with it.

Do i spend hours bottling infected beer or tip it?

Might bottle and see what happens. I will remain out of the swap though.

cheers

 

[Stuster]

Bottle it, Tony. Then if it tastes fine to you in a few weeks' time, you might still be able to take part if (when) somebody else drops out.

 

[white.grant]

+1 for bottling it.

At the end of the day, if it tastes good, what's the problem? You just may have invented a new yeast.

cheers

grant

 

[Tony]

Well it is a funky beer with 50% rye and a belgian yeast....... but it tastes so smooth.

RIghtio... bottling tonight.

I hate bottling <_<

cheers

 

[Stuster]

Any chance you could post up a picture of what it looks like?

 

[Tony]

Glad you asked mate...... i was going to anyway.

No way im givving this to others to drink. Did some more tasting and it is infected. Its there just not as prominent as in a "simpler" beer.

God it would have been good too.

What im really really pissed off about is that i forgot to keep a bit of the 3787 from the pack pre pitching. Im going to make a starter with some i kept from primary and see if it does the same.

One thing that did happen is the yeast, being 3787 managed to climb out the airlock of a 70 liter fermenter with only 40 liters (half full) in it. Some that was sitting in the airlock before i found it that night could have made its way back in. It flooded the top of the lid and i had to remove it and hose it all off. Something obviosly got in then. I have been anal with everything latly and all beers have been great. Thats the only thing that was different with this one.

:angry: :angry: :angry:

Here are some pictures. I just bottlesd off a dozen bottles for future analasys and will ditch the rest.

Its a white film like a skin on the surface and there is a very cloudy "bloom" in the beer. The headspace over the beer smells like solvent, or wet paint. like a funky hot alcohol smell. The beer tastes almost normal but experience says the taste comes later. Its not unplesent, but it masks the malt and hops and has a kind of slick sweet, solventy taste thats kind of hidden under the beer and apears more in after taste.

any help as to what it is would be appreciated.

Just had a thought........ going to re-check my chiller for leaks. Thats what this was last time.

 

[schooey]

Not sure if this is any help or even related, but once I brewed a 50L batch of a Summer Ale, and the starter I had planned wasn't ready so I put the boiled wort in the sanitised fermenter with an airlock in my fermenter fridge unpitched. When I got home a week later to pitch it, it look just like that, same film on top and all and smelt exactly as you described. I didn't taste it, I just tipped it. I figured it had picked up a wild infection.

Like I said, maybe the same, maybe not, but it looks exactly the same

Edit: I still reckon you are best bottling it to suck it and see if it tastes ok, I was really looking forward to having a crack at the Knight Rye-der

 

[redbeard]

Tony I think you should concentrate on lambic style lemonades rather than give up

So you get a pass till the next Xmas in July case

cheers

 

[Tony]

There are a dozen bottles mate.

I will donate a couple fo your group of apprentice judges to see what you can find in a month or so when its carbed

Not going to bottle more.........

To quote the Goose while chasing the night rider in mad max.......... were 100% snaffooed!

If i sent a lambic to a comp it would come back on the score sheet as "infected"

 

[Zwickel]

Tony, that seems to be a "Kahmhefe" sorry the only translation I could find is "film-forming-yeast"

its a kind of wild yeast

that mostly happens when there is too much room in the fermenter. Kahmhefe needs oxygen to grow. Also it can happen when it takes too much time until fermentation starts.

Cheers :icon_cheers:

 

[Tony]

Thanks Zwickel.... that does help and exlains a bit. Wild airbourn yeasties.

Bastards

sorry for the :icon_offtopic: folks

back to the swap

 

[Stuster]

Another possibility is lactobacillus. Sounds like it to me with a solvent smell and that skin on it. This is what somebody posted about that on the greenboard. From here, post 30.

Here is a pretty good picture of a Lacto or Pedio infection. Started out as a white film. Let it go at room temp and it got really interesting. Very powerful Solvent aroma (burned eyes and nose). Like fingernail polish (not the remover). Couldn't get past that to detect diacetyl or lactic acid.

I had a mild pedio infection for many years before I got it worked out. Slight sourness, diacetyl and super attenuation are what you can expect (from pedio). Keep it cold and consume quickly to minimize effects. Bomb everything to get rid of it.

As you say, it's probably something to do with the airlock, removing the lid, or washing it. Unlucky but hopefully doesn't mean that future batches will be infected.

 

[Muggus]

I've seen that film form over the top of the 'dregs' of a few bottled brews in my time that i'd forgotten to clean out.
I recall almost passing out from the fumes that came off the stuff!

Bit scary that its happened to a big healthy brew like that though...enough to make me a bit paranoid...i've already had one case of Brett infection recently :blink: !

 

[Stuster]

i've already had one case of Brett infection recently :blink: !

Yum. :icon_drool2:

 

[white.grant]

You could try a trip to the BOM and check the weather archive for the last couple of weeks and the period around when you last battled this infection and see if there's any potential correlations with your previous outbreaks -- I'm thinking prevailing wind, temperature humidity etc. (From my memory I thought it was around the change of season form autumn to winter and now spring when you last had problems). Perhaps there's something downwind of you that's causing the bloom? Any cropping or fertilising happening nearby? Tillage stirs up a lot of stuff that floats and drifts and settles near sugar... I think getting through winter with no problems might be clue.

cheers

grant

 

[schooey]

Perhaps there's something downwind of you that's causing the bloom?

Perhaps it's all the blooming houses springing out of the ground at Aberglasslyn... With the FHOG doubling to $14 large, it's only gonna get worse...

 

[Tony]

Yum. :icon_drool2:

<_<

Stuster........... that quote you posted is it! Nail pollish! Thats the smell. and its strong.... like from the bottle.

Must have been the lid with the mess out the airlock. a nother brew..... an american brown (why couldnt that have got it instead <_< ) sat in the fermenter in the exact same spot..... beside this while fermenting for 3 weeks and is fine. tastes good too

great point on the weather too. That has me thinking too but with the mess out the airlock ect...... im going to call it that for now. If i start getting this every brew again.......... im going back to cartons of tooheys new!

GrantW......... i hope your wrong! god i hope your wrong!

I have a sheep shagger fermenting in a fridge and a Red ale fermenting out in the garage. Will be interesting to see what happens to them.

I have had the garage well sealed up to keep both the kids and the warm air out for the last month

god knows

 

[Stuster]

If i start getting this every brew again.......... im going back to cartons of tooheys new!

Surely it's not as bad as all that, Tony.

 

[Weizguy]

Tony, that looks like something that springs up here when I leave the brew too long in the fermentor, and it smells like vinegar (and then acetone when it gets toooo warm/ sits toooo long). Pretty sure it's acetobacter, and it's OK if you bottle from under the white film. Just don't mix the film in, and rack to another vessel as a bottling bucket. Be sure to leave all the filth behind. It will stick to the walls as the vessel empties.

Clean the vessel well and the infection will not recur.

This also happens when I leave the vessel open too long, instead off closing it when primary is over.

Any further thoughts?

 

[Tony]

Yeah it has happened to me before and always a few days after racking the beer to secondary to clear. I never open ferment. It has sat for a week clearing out. THe oily texture of the beer wit hall the rye was slowing this down so i racked it. The american brown brewed at the same time as this sat for 3 weeks before i got to it but it sat in primary and i simply racked and bottled the same night.

maybe there is a lesson in that for me hey.

thanks mate