Wyeast Smack Pack, Longest Time To Swell

[np1962]

DrS,

I have this book on order:
Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation
I will let you know when it arrives if you would like to borrow it.

Cheers
Jon

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar :icon_cheers:

I might grab one of these books, can't buy it for that price wholesale from the author.
Nige

 

[Dazza_devil]

I've just checked a Wyeast 1968 London Ale yeast in the fridge that hasn't been 'smacked' yet appears to have swollen, will this be OK to use?.

Have a quick read through the bits I've quoted from differing sources then make up a starter from it to verify it's viability.
Plenty of other info about starters as well on AHB if you need it with a quick search.

 

[stux]

I've just checked a Wyeast 1968 London Ale yeast in the fridge that hasn't been 'smacked' yet appears to have swollen, will this be OK to use?.

Depends if its infected or smacked

 

[stux]

5 years for me. Dave had one which I think was 9 years. All it takes is one cell!

The interesting thing with the smack packs is they are sterile, and they have enough nutrients to inflate the pack...

So, they should always end up in the ballpark of the same number of viable yeastibites...

Whether you start with one, or 25 billion viable cells, the end result will be the same the only difference is time it takes to get there

....


I think I'm going to start stockpiling wyeast smackpacks

 

[np1962]

The interesting thing with the smack packs is they are sterile, and they have enough nutrients to inflate the pack...

So, they should always end up in the ballpark of the same number of viable yeastibites...

Whether you start with one, or 25 billion viable cells, the end result will be the same the only difference is time it takes to get there

....


I think I'm going to start stockpiling wyeast smackpacks

IIRC there is no/little increase in the number of cells when you smack the pack.
Therefore an old or mistreated pack may contain very few viable cells even after it is smacked.
Definitely need to make a starter and get those that have survived multiplying.
Very old pack, start small and build up in a few steps to at least a litre for 23L brew.
Now to go find some references in case someone picks holes in what I have said.
Nige

 

[jimi]

IIRC there is no/little increase in the number of cells when you smack the pack.
Therefore an old or mistreated pack may contain very few viable cells even after it is smacked.
Definitely need to make a starter and get those that have survived multiplying.
Very old pack, start small and build up in a few steps to at least a litre for 23L brew.
Now to go find some references in case someone picks holes in what I have said.
Nige

That's the bit that has always confused me Nige - wyeast claim that smacking is not required to ensure the 'pitchable' number of yeast and I have also heard it mentioned that smacking only 'activates' not 'multiplies', as you mentioned. What are those yeast doing if they are active but not multiplying?

 

[DUANNE]

What are those yeast doing if they are active but not multiplying?

i think thats youre answer right there. all the yeast are doing is waking up from a slumber at cold temps and the nutrient is just to ensure they wake up in a healthy and reasonably viable state with only good stuff to eat.

 

[Dazza_devil]

i think thats youre answer right there. all the yeast are doing is waking up from a slumber at cold temps and the nutrient is just to ensure they wake up in a healthy and reasonably viable state with only good stuff to eat.

Maybe they have a good fart when they wake and that swells the pack.

 

[felten]

There's no oxygen in there for them to multiply, its just a little bit of wort and nutrients afaik.

 

[np1962]

There's no oxygen in there for them to multiply, its just a little bit of wort and nutrients afaik.

This could be right although I'm not sure there is any wort in there, I think it is just a nutrient mix.
Wyeast FAQ confirms the yeast only activates not multiplies but no other info there .
Good exercise searching for info though as you pick up all sorts of interesting stuff while looking.
Nige

 

[Dazza_devil]

This could be right although I'm not sure there is any wort in there, I think it is just a nutrient mix.
Wyeast FAQ confirms the yeast only activates not multiplies but no other info there .
Good exercise searching for info though as you pick up all sorts of interesting stuff while looking.
Nige

I'm thinking that the contents of the pack could be in a reasonably high concentration of CO2 by the time the pack is swelled to it's max. I take it that it's CO2 expelled as a result of the metabolism of the nutrients in the smack-pack.

 

[np1962]

I'm thinking that the contents of the pack could be in a reasonably high concentration of CO2 by the time the pack is swelled to it's max. I take it that it's CO2 expelled as a result of the metabolism of the nutrients in the smack-pack.

Agreed, I can't see it being anything other than CO2 that would swell the pack.
Would be interesting to know what exactly is in the nutrient pack.
Nige

 

[warra48]

And then there are the shortest times to swell.

Smacked a pak of WY3638 just before dinner time last night, and it's already swollen this morning for today's brew.
Date on the pak is August 2010.

 

[np1962]

And then there are the shortest times to swell.

Smacked a pak of WY3638 just before dinner time last night, and it's already swollen this morning for today's brew.
Date on the pak is August 2010.

Something to do with the weizen yeasts, 3068 is also a quick sweller usually. Maybe they are hardier and retain more viable cells for longer.
Nige

 

[drew9242]

I'm new to liquid yeast, but both the yeasts i have smacked have swollen in 5 to 6 hours. Smack it at lunch and when i get home it is ready to go. They were 1056 and 2206. I was getting prepared to wait for a day or two like everyone seams to on here, but alas they were on fire. We will see how my next 3 packs go when i get around to needing them.

 

[Dazza_devil]

My last packet of 1469 swelled in under 2 hours, I think it was about 2 weeks old from memory.

 

[Thirsty Boy]

I think people are misunderstanding the purpose of a "smack" pack. It's just a proofing mechanism, it not about growing more cells, or getting the cells active before you pitch... Nothing to do with that at all. It's just plain and simply a way for you to judge the health of the yeast in the pack.

You smack, it swells fast = healthy viable yeast
You smack, it swells slowly = small numbers or unhealthy yeast, or both ... Better make a starter
You smack,it swells really slowly = nearly screwed, but something is still alive in there. Treat it like you were propagating from a slant or some other long term storage.
You smack, it doesn't swell = save your starter wort and buy a fresh pack.

 

[stux]

I think people are misunderstanding the purpose of a "smack" pack. It's just a proofing mechanism, it not about growing more cells, or getting the cells active before you pitch... Nothing to do with that at all. It's just plain and simply a way for you to judge the health of the yeast in the pack.

You smack, it swells fast = healthy viable yeast
You smack, it swells slowly = small numbers or unhealthy yeast, or both ... Better make a starter
You smack,it swells really slowly = nearly screwed, but something is still alive in there. Treat it like you were propagating from a slant or some other long term storage.
You smack, it doesn't swell = save your starter wort and buy a fresh pack.

Sometimes I think you need a "Like" button on the side of posts...

 

[BoilerBoy]

I think people are misunderstanding the purpose of a "smack" pack. It's just a proofing mechanism, it not about growing more cells, or getting the cells active before you pitch... Nothing to do with that at all. It's just plain and simply a way for you to judge the health of the yeast in the pack.

You smack, it swells fast = healthy viable yeast
You smack, it swells slowly = small numbers or unhealthy yeast, or both ... Better make a starter
You smack,it swells really slowly = nearly screwed, but something is still alive in there. Treat it like you were propagating from a slant or some other long term storage.
You smack, it doesn't swell = save your starter wort and buy a fresh pack.

Thats it in a nutshell!

Just allow yourself enough time before brew day for the last 2 possibilities.

Cheers,
BB