Williamswarn Brewery Operation and Explanation

[Cervantes]

Wobbly,

Many thanks for the detailed explanation.

 

[wobbly]

Well brewers my experience/learning with the WW continues.

In the past I have had an issue with the amount of trub carry over from my 20lt BM which has overloaded the sediment bottle requiring emptying a number of times as well as additional clarification stages.

Based on feed back from a number of brewers and the Braumeister Forum I have increased the boil vigour by adapting a SS bowel to act as a domed lid (Dicko's design) and introduced chilled water (pool pump) into my IC so as to get the wort down to 20C before whirlpooling. The result is that after approx. 1 hour standing you can see the elements in the bottom of the BM. which I couldn't do before. I then slowly drain to the WW and leave about 4 lts cold/hot trub/break in the BM. This has been a significant improvement in the amount of trub/break material settling out in the sediment bottle in the first hours of fermentation

The last two beers I have brewed have been a Kolsh style using Craftbrewer German Ale (K-97 ale yeast) and it has been very difficult/slow to clear after chilling to 2C for 2 days and then adding the Colloidal Silicon Dioxide clarification liquid. The yeast when it drops out of suspension just doesn't compact as does other yeasts such as US-05 for example and it is therefore necessary to empty the sediment bottle additional times

As the yeast is sitting in the bottom of the cone I am tempted to draw it off through the serving tap until I see clear beer flowing but I'm mindful of a potential blockage of the delivery line from the cone to the serving tap which if that happens it can be a ******* to clear. I am aware of a guy in the USA and another in SA that blocked the delivery line and had quite a time trying to clear it.

Not sure if it is possible to increase the size of the beer delivery line or not. Something I will have a look at.

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[pk.sax]

http://www.grainfather.co.nz/#!online-store/c1o3q/!/~/product/category=0&id=39751579

More bang for buck, even if you add an extra fermenting fridge and temp controller. Those kiwis don't know how easy they've got it!

 

[Elz]

Thanks Wobbly for your invaluable advice around all grain brewing and the WW. When i eventually get to all grain i reckon you have made my brewing somewhat hassle free.
Cheers
Elz
Ps i am seriously eyeing up the Grainfather (but also wanting programable mash)

 

[Yob]

You lose 4l in a 20l brew?

 

[indica86]

You lose 4l in a 20l brew?

2.5k for a Brau, seems worth it????

 

[dicko]

You lose 4l in a 20l brew?

After chilling, I leave the wort sit for one hour to settle. I dont bother trying to whirlpool in my BM because it has little effect in forming a cone.
Depending on the amount of hops I use I leave between 3 and 4 litres to trub and my wort is crystal clear going into the fermenter.
I feel I get a better, cleaner flavour particularly with pale lagers and this method makes salvaging yeast for re use a breeze as the sample in the bottom of the fermenter is very clean when fermentation is finished.

 

[Blind Dog]

Thanks Wobbly for your invaluable advice around all grain brewing and the WW. When i eventually get to all grain i reckon you have made my brewing somewhat hassle free.
Cheers
Elz
Ps i am seriously eyeing up the Grainfather (but also wanting programable mash)

check out posts by Lael towards the end of the bonjuino and matho's $30 controller thread. No idea how the controller would integrate with a grainfather, but it probably could. Or just simply go BM - must admit I try to work out a 5 step mash for every brew, just because I can. If you like your WW, I suspect you'll love a BM.

 

[Elz]

Really tempted to buy a BM but every fifth or sixth brew I enjoy brewing an imperial (eg just purchased the heady hopper extract clone from Barleyman). This is the only weakness i see of the BM and the GF is capable of higher gravity. I have also thought of purchasing a BM and topping up with DME
Cheers
Elz

 

[wobbly]

You lose 4l in a 20l brew?

No I don't

I target 24lt into the WW and leave "about" 4lt in the BM.

So my post boil vol in the BM is about 28lt which equals a pre vol boil of close to 34lt which is about the max I can get out of my "20lt BM"

As Dicko states by adopting the above the wort into the fermenter (WW) is crystal clear and I am aware of the "trub in or trub out" experiments carried out by others and the claim that it makes no difference to taste and whilst that may be so my drive is to limit the amount of sediment to be collected in the sediment bottle. Dicko's comments of "cleaner/better flavours" is of interest and from my perspective it's all about the 1% improvements just as there are comments emerging about improved (best ever) beers fermented in the SS Brewbuckets compared to plastic fermenters. Maybe there is something in this "All SS, oxygen free environment ferment to consumption, pressure and temperature controlled process" after all

The reference to the Craftbrewer German Ale yeast (AKA K-97) is just a follow up on Ian Williams advice/comment that they have not tested all strains of yeast and some may not clear as well as the ones they have tested/recommend when using their clarification agent (Colloidal Silicon Dioxide)

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[manticle]

Hi wobbly,
I have read that k97 is similar or same strain as wyeast 1007. If this is the case, it holds a thick, persistent krausen well after fermentation is finished but will clear beautifully with time, patience and cold
I should add my experience is with unfined 1007 rather than fined k97 but understand it to typify the experiences of others.

 

[pk.sax]

Time, patience and cold are not exactly we selling points.

2 brownie points from you for the oversight.

Of course, OP could simply get a bigger sediment bottle! ffs, the simple things are cheap to do hence not considered.

AFAIK, Chris Taylor did side by side brews with clear wort vs trubby wort and he concluded trub is good. I'm not basing this on my judgement, don't brew enough, but CT did hold the Melbourne brewers dick trophy for years.

On a homebrew scale I'd listen to him before I listen to wee ****.

 

[wobbly]

Hi wobbly,
I have read that k97 is similar or same strain as wyeast 1007. If this is the case, it holds a thick, persistent krausen well after fermentation is finished but will clear beautifully with time, patience and cold
I should add my experience is with unfined 1007 rather than fined k97 but understand it to typify the experiences of others.

Hi Manticle
My experience with this yeast (K-97) a couple of times in the WW is yes it holds a krausen long after terminal gravity has been reached and again my experience is it takes at least two and some times three doses of Colloidal Silicon Dioxide to get all the krausen to drop out if trying to get it all out in about 36 hours as you can with the WW process. Sure I can allow the fermented beer to sit at 2C longer and clean it up that way. My comments are posted so that others using this yeast in a WW get an insight to my experiences

Thanks for your input

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[wobbly]

Of course, OP could simply get a bigger sediment bottle! ffs, the simple things are cheap to do hence not considered.

AFAIK, Chris Taylor did side by side brews with clear wort vs trubby wort and he concluded trub is good. I'm not basing this on my judgement, don't brew enough, but CT did hold the Melbourne brewers dick trophy for years.

On a homebrew scale I'd listen to him before I listen to wee ****.

Hi Practical Fool

As always your "ffs" contributions are valued!!!!

And for your information the WW sediment bottle is a 32oz Nalgene drink bottle that has a specific thread and the available space to fit a larger/bigger bottle is limited and it isn't just as easy as a simple thing "FFS".

I have been in contact with the Nalgene laboratories in the USA seeking a suitable larger bottle that will withstand the particular operating conditions which are 1C to 28C and pressure up to 5bar and they don't make one and it's not something you will pick up at the Green Shed or the local Woollies "FFS"

As to Chris Taylor (who ever he may be) concluding that trub is good I would be interested in how his reported conclusion was scientifically arrived at and as to the brewers dick trophy not sure what that would be suffice to say that it isn't something I will be keen to hold onto any time soon "FFS"

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[black_labb]

Do you know how much it costs to to tool up for a run of specially sized and threaded bottle from plastic would be? If he actually did that when making the thing then that bottle is why the thing is so expensive. More than likely Nalgene simply isn't going to suggest any of their bottles to be used at 5 bar as they haven't tested them. Why would they take the chance to sell you a single bottle?

If they realised how much WW owners are willing to shell out they would probably relabel a set of bottles and market them to WW users.

A much better way from the start would be to have a ball valve on the bottom so that sediment and yeast can be drawn off at will, but the WW is made like an apple product on steroids- make something any idiot* can use at the expense of full functionality and charge without remorse for the privilege.

* Not saying all apple or WW users are idiots, just that they are able to be operated by idiots (with a big chunk of spare cash)

 

[Blind Dog]

Hi Wobbly, have you brewed a big beer in the BM yet? Just wondered as theoretically I figure the Imperial whatever that Elz likes to brew isn't much of an issue as an OG of around 1075 should be achievable, particularly with the top plate turned upside down a la Dicko's suggestion in another thread. But I've never done it and wouldn't want to suggest something I've never tried.

 

[rehabs_for_quitters]

Not stirring the pot here but a question regarding this bottle and its ability to handle 5 bar of pressure at which stage is the system reaching those pressures as if it does I wouldn't be having it in my kitchen for fear of it launching,

I would get a similar one of the Nalgene bottles that fits and drill a hole in the lid put in a tyre valve and pump it up and see if it will handle the pressure the system actually reaches and if it does there's your answer.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

He's not the only person to say trub has no negative impacts on a home brew scale, it's been a shown a bunch of times experimentally, as far as scientific process, no - of course not.

As to Chris Taylor (who ever he may be) concluding that trub is good I would be interested in how his reported conclusion was scientifically arrived at and as to the brewers dick trophy not sure what that would be suffice to say that it isn't something I will be keen to hold onto any time soon "FFS"

 

[Yob]

Do a search ffs

From memory it has an negative effect on long term storage, most people in the blind starting preferred the trub included batch over the 'filtered'

On a homebrew scale, and if you are consuming not storing for years, the difference makes no never mind

 

[wobbly]

My mistake on the max pressure. Checked the manual and it states "Max Gas pressure - 3Bar" . I previously looked at the "safety Valve" and there is a number impressed in the plastic seal and I assumed this was the valve setting value but in hind sight it is most likely only a tool reference number.

Actually the staff at Nalgene Labs were very helpful to the point they sent me free of charge a 2lt HDPE bottle (rated at 0.2bar) to try but some how we miss communicated the thread dia and it won't fit.

As to the effects of trub on the finished beer I'm in "Dicko's" corner (see post above)

Cheers

Wobbly