Williamswarn Brewery Operation and Explanation

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

Hahahaha, I think I pooed a little.

are you serious....lol. How many fridges do you have??

Big dollars for a system. And your worried about power consumption?
Fork out for a solar system.


God dam makes me feel like starting a new thread. " How to save penny's wile spending pounds"

 

[Beerisyummy]

are you serious....lol. How many fridges do you have??

I own four at the moment. This includes one commercial unit that retails for around $2k+, and is a power hungry workhorse if need be.
I ask because I can find no mention of this figure anywhere.

Scooby, That's cool. Dig away! I posted it, so I don't mind if you pick it apart.

 

[dicko]

I own four at the moment. This includes one commercial unit that retails for around $2k+, and is a power hungry workhorse if need be.
I ask because I can find no mention of this figure anywhere.

Scooby, That's cool. Dig away! I posted it, so I don't mind if you pick it apart.

Beerisyummy,

There are two other topics, one of which has been started by yourself to point out hidden distastes for this equipment and enquiring as to the power consumption of the machine, and as such I suggest you keep any comments within those threads.
As this topic was started to allow the explanation of the operation of the WPB I will remove any posts that are not on topic or appear to be trying to derail this thread.
I wish to point out that I have no personal affiliation with the WPB or its manufacturers, but am interested in the way it works and this is what THIS topic is about.

Thank you

 

[Scooby Tha Newbie]

This system is very interesting if you can produce beer faster and at the same quality.
I would like to know if any of the punter's have tried to place the finished beers in kegs?
How does the system know if the finished beer is carbonated to the correct amount or is that a manual adjustment?
Either way I watching with interest.

 

[Beerisyummy]

This system is very interesting if you can produce beer faster and at the same quality.
I would like to know if any of the punter's have tried to place the finished beers in kegs?
How does the system know if the finished beer is carbonated to the correct amount or is that a manual adjustment?
Either way I watching with interest.

Fermenting under pressure allows the brewer to slow down the yeast metabolism. This helps compensate for higher temperatures, which normally accelerate the process.
The quick part comes from the beverage being carbonated at the end of fermentation.

Wobbly has posted a diagram of the CO2/spunding setup around here somewhere. It has a pressure gauge to give you a read out of the internal pressures.
You can also refer to the user manual on the site, which details this part of operation in the appendices.

 

[roger mellie]

Can someone please post power consumption figures on the unit, based on actual use.

Beer

Much much much less than a normal fridge - no question. Losses are lower/duty cycle is far lower/compressor is 1/4 of the size.

I haven't put my ammeter on the unit - but I will. The compressor/fan setup is quite small - I would suggest about 500W / 2A whilst running/cooling. The glycol recirc pump runs continually - I would assume < 60W.

The +/- 1 degree cycle sees the unit on and off about every 10 minutes during fermentation - for about 2 minutes. Obviously more frequent when the set point is 1 degree when clarifying.

SHMABO has commandeered the 'fridge that used to be used for fermenting' so all ideas of saving money on power are out the gate.

I will report back with figures from my next brew and give estimated cost for a brew (to one decimal place)/

RM

 

[roger mellie]

This system is very interesting if you can produce beer faster and at the same quality.
I would like to know if any of the punter's have tried to place the finished beers in kegs?
How does the system know if the finished beer is carbonated to the correct amount or is that a manual adjustment?
Either way I watching with interest.

Scooby

Sure have - Twice

Transferring from the WW unit to a keg is as simple as a 1M pice of beer line and a black QD. Purge the keg to the same pressure as the WW unit then a tug on the pressure relief valve (occasionally starts the flow of beer. No carbonation is lost during the transfer process - the beer can be drunk straight away from the keg although naturally the beer will warm a degree or 2.

The amount of carbonation is governed by the setting on the back pressure regulator (spunding valve) - at 1.5 Bar (150kPa) back pressure you get roughly 2.5 volumes of CO2. I have just made a pils - with 1.5 bar back pressure it is perfectly carbonated.

I have crapped on before about the difference between force carbing and spunding - the bubbles are finer - thats about all.

RM

 

[Elz]

Hi Fellow brewers
I have posted on the 'old thread' but noted that it was getting a littler heated; therefore I welcome this new thread (here's hoping it stays true to topic!).
Observation of WW so far:
I am using only 20 ml of clarification agent per brew, i.e. clarify beer at day 4.5 after chilling to 1oC. I have found that the beer will naturally clear after pulling a few beers and over a few days (I don't mind cloudy beer at the best of times!). This means that I will normally drink beer after 5.5 days, with clear beer after 6-7 days.
The machine is rather noisy, and currently lives in the kitchen and is not suited to this area. This weekend I will move it down stairs and brew there. I would have preferred a quieter machine more suited to its live in a domestic area.
Brewing only K&K so far, I am finding that this beer is fantastic as an every day beer, but I am still buying craft beers. I expect that as I become more experienced in the brewing process I will be purchasing craft beers less and less in the future.

Anyway up to brew number 9 and are moving from K&K to my first extract brew. Planning on brewing Feral Hop Hog clone or simular. I have dry hopped before but added the hops during the fermentation process which was poor practice as the beer was missing the intended hop aroma/flavour. This time I plan to add hops to the sediment bottle after day 3 or 4 and leave for 3-4 days.
Has any one tried this type of extract recipe and if you have could you please post the recipe with any dry hopping hints.
As the brewery is moving down stairs have any WW users tried using growlers as an alternative to bottling their beer. Again any feedback welcome
Cheers

 

[wobbly]

Hi Elz

Like you I found the Glycol pump and condenser fan a bit annoyingly noisy

Another WW owner in South Australia has commented to me via e-mail that he has been able to make his Glycol pump very quiet by increasing the Glycol mix from 5% to close to 15% by adding some more food grade Glycol to the tank. I haven't tried this myself as yet but is something I will keep in mind.

The other annoying issue of the refrigerant condenser fan being noisy more so than the glycol pump is because of the speed the fan runs at (blade tip speed). To reduce the fan noise to an acceptable level I have used a “Kemo M012” speed controller (available in most electronic parts stores like Jaycar) and lowered the fan speed until I can still feel air movement over my wet hand held about 75 mm in front of the condenser unit. This has brought the fan speed noise down to an almost acceptable level

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[rehabs_for_quitters]

Now can I ask next time one of you owner folks of a williamswarn has it empty if you would mind posting a close up of the valve assembly at the bottom that stops everything falling out when you remove the sediment bottle,

also how much liquid does the sediment bottle hold and how far from the bottom is the beer pickup for the tap, and while I'm being nosey how many litres finished volume from a 23L brew do you get after removing sediment and clarifying?

Cheers

 

[Elz]

Hi Elz

Like you I found the Glycol pump and condenser fan a bit annoyingly noisy
Another WW owner in South Australia has commented to me via e-mail that he has been able to make his Glycol pump very quiet by increasing the Glycol mix from 5% to close to 15% by adding some more food grade Glycol to the tank. I haven't tried this myself as yet but is something I will keep in mind.
The other annoying issue of the refrigerant condenser fan being noisy more so than the glycol pump is because of the speed the fan runs at (blade tip speed). To reduce the fan noise to an acceptable level I have used a “Kemo M012” speed controller (available in most electronic parts stores like Jaycar) and lowered the fan speed until I can still feel air movement over my wet hand held about 75 mm in front of the condenser unit. This has brought the fan speed noise down to an almost acceptable level

Cheers

Wobbly

Hi Wobbly
Thanks for the detailed response. I will likely follow the advice once the warranty has ran out, doubt if there will be any issues in the interim, but better safe than sorry). In the meantime down stairs she goes! May be a blessing in disguise as I will likely drink less beer (on the other hand!!!).
Cheers
Shayne

 

[wobbly]

RFQ

I'm not going to post photos as the machine is covered by a "patent" and the butterfly valve and pressure relief vale are/look like proprietary items and the patent details that the express permission of the "Owner" must be obtained before copying/taking/posting photos etc. and I respect that requirement.

In answer to your questions:-

• The valve at the bottom of the conical tank is a 45 degree butterfly valve about 40mm in dia
• The beer pick up line is virtually right at the bottom of the cone just mm above the butterfly valve I would guess that there is only a few mils (if that) of beer left in the tank when it sucks CO2
• The sediment bottle holds close to 1lt and is a Nalegen 750ml drink bottle
• If you do 2 sediment removals you will end up with around 21lts left from your 23lts
• I have found with my fresh wort made in a 20lt Braumeistere that I need to do three sediment bottle empties to remove all the "break material" so to overcome this I have adjusted my brew volume so that I can fill to 25lts at the start and I have been informed that you can fit 26lts in without any issue with krausen impacting on the variable pressure relief valve port
• I think if you were fermenting a partial or extract brew you would only need the two empties as the extract has most likely been centrifuged prior to vacuum reduction and therefore a lot more of the break material removed
• I need to work on reducing the amount of "break material" I transfer from the BM to the WW. I use Brewbrite and whirl pool but something just isn't right and I will look at my crush next

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[schoey]

RFQ

I'm not going to post photos as the machine is covered by a "patent" and the butterfly valve and pressure relief vale are/look like proprietary items and the patent details that the express permission of the "Owner" must be obtained before copying/taking/posting photos etc. and I respect that requirement.

In answer to your questions:-

• The valve at the bottom of the conical tank is a 45 degree butterfly valve about 40mm in dia
• The beer pick up line is virtually right at the bottom of the cone just mm above the butterfly valve I would guess that there is only a few mils (if that) of beer left in the tank when it sucks CO2
• The sediment bottle holds close to 1lt and is a Nalegen 750ml drink bottle
• If you do 2 sediment removals you will end up with around 21lts left from your 23lts
• I have found with my fresh wort made in a 20lt Braumeistere that I need to do three sediment bottle empties to remove all the "break material" so to overcome this I have adjusted my brew volume so that I can fill to 25lts at the start and I have been informed that you can fit 26lts in without any issue with krausen impacting on the variable pressure relief valve port
• I think if you were fermenting a partial or extract brew you would only need the two empties as the extract has most likely been centrifuged prior to vacuum reduction and therefore a lot more of the break material removed
• I need to work on reducing the amount of "break material" I transfer from the BM to the WW. I use Brewbrite and whirl pool but something just isn't right and I will look at my crush next

Cheers

Wobbly

Hi Wobbly,
the fact that the WW has a patent has nothing to do with being able to post photos of the unit. In fact, part of the application process for a patent is submitting detailed diagrams/descriptions and sometimes photographs to the patent office. These are searchable by the general public so that an inventor can search the database and see if anyone else has a patent on an invention he/she is working on before applying themselves. The only reason you wouldn't be allowed to take a photo and post it online of something you have obtained legally would be signing a non-disclosure agreement or similar.

For those interested, the WW patent can be found on AusPat (http://www.ipaustralia.gov.au/auspat/index.htm).

 

[MastersBrewery]

whats the patent Number might be an interesting read

Ed: found it , interesting read though I would state none of the parts of the system are patented, it is the sum of the parts that is patented.

eg; temp controlled jacketed fermenters have been around for years, same with pressure control, serving beer from a pressure vessel, the shape of a conical was originally designed so leese and trub could be easily removed. The introduction of clarifying agents (how do you think the commercial brewers do it)

serving beer from the fermenter that's new and as the application says it reduces the possibility of oxygenation and therefore the beer will have a predictably longer shelf life.

the patent on the nut and locking device has lapsed so no longer valid

go for a wonder around the morebeer website they stock every part to build this system

 

[shaunous]

Now can I ask next time one of you owner folks of a williamswarn has it empty if you would mind posting a close up of the valve assembly at the bottom that stops everything falling out when you remove the sediment bottle,

also how much liquid does the sediment bottle hold and how far from the bottom is the beer pickup for the tap, and while I'm being nosey how many litres finished volume from a 23L brew do you get after removing sediment and clarifying?

Cheers

If you want something like this, find a mate who is a diesel fitter. Many makes of earthmoving gear use a device like this on their hydraulic and engine oil sump drains, its just a brass valve, once something is screwed into it, it opens up, in this case the WW bottle, in the machinerys case, a hose to drain the fluids, once it is removed the valve closes, they are simple and i've seen them as weld on and screw on adaters.

As shown here;



But anyway, if your keen on making one, you'd be better off just using a gate valve, why make it fancy?

 

[MastersBrewery]

RFQ Link the use of butterfly valves as opposed to ball valves to to reduce loss when switching out attachments to the valve

 

[roger mellie]

whats the patent Number might be an interesting read

Ed: found it , interesting read though I would state none of the parts of the system are patented, it is the sum of the parts that is patented.

eg; temp controlled jacketed fermenters have been around for years, same with pressure control, serving beer from a pressure vessel, the shape of a conical was originally designed so leese and trub could be easily removed. The introduction of clarifying agents (how do you think the commercial brewers do it)

serving beer from the fermenter that's new and as the application says it reduces the possibility of oxygenation and therefore the beer will have a predictably longer shelf life.

the patent on the nut and locking device has lapsed so no longer valid

go for a wonder around the morebeer website they stock every part to build this system

OK I will bite

Couldn't find a fermenter rated to 3 Bar
Couldn't find a 32mm Butterly valve with a thread assembly to take a sediment trap
Couldn't find a BPA free sediment bottle that screws into the butterfly valve
Whilst the Morebeer free-standing jacketed conical is a funky looking piece of kit - its not capable of pressure > 5 psi (0.34 BarG) when you need at least 1.2 - 1.5 BarG to carbonate your beverage.

I notice some chat about Patents etc - you only break a patent if you try and plagiarise a patented item and then try and gain commercial advantage by selling your copy.
I would assume that the Braumeister is patented - for example. Doesn't seem to have stopped a lot of people making a copy for themselves.

RM

 

[MastersBrewery]

OK I will bite

Couldn't find a fermenter rated to 3 Bar
Couldn't find a 32mm Butterly valve with a thread assembly to take a sediment trap
Couldn't find a BPA free sediment bottle that screws into the butterfly valve
Whilst the Morebeer free-standing jacketed conical is a funky looking piece of kit - its not capable of pressure > 5 psi (0.34 BarG) when you need at least 1.2 - 1.5 BarG to carbonate your beverage.

I notice some chat about Patents etc - you only break a patent if you try and plagiarise a patented item and then try and gain commercial advantage by selling your copy.
I would assume that the Braumeister is patented - for example. Doesn't seem to have stopped a lot of people making a copy for themselves.

RM

the patent doc does not state rated pressure of the vessel, nor the size of the butterfly valve ( and this would only matter in relation to fitting the tri clove on the fermenter, and for that matter if WW goes out of bussiness your going to have to have parts made to order as they are non standard if something breaks or such. This is a good thing?)

As for sediment trap link would do the trick.

ED: 1.5 inch= 32.1 mm

 

[wobbly]

The sediment bottle is branded "Nalgene" and appears to be the same as their 750mil BPA free drink bottle available at most outdoor camping store

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[shaunous]

Wobbly = Always helpful