Williamswarn Brewery Operation and Explanation

[wobbly]

I am about to ferment a pilsner using a Wyeast Budvar 2000 yeast and plan to just smack the pack and let it swell and then add to the sediment/yeast bottle and ferment at 15C as per the standard WW procedure for 3 days and if it has reached close to terminal gravity then raise it to 18C for another three days and then chill for 12 hours to drop the yeast and clarify. So if all the hype is correct I will be sampling/drinking this Pilsner on or about the 3rd March 2014

Well this turned out to be a failure. Took the Smack pack 36 hours to kick in, before pitching I aerated with an Air Stone, pitched yeast and took 36hrs to indicate any CO2 build up at 15C, OG was 1045 and after 6 days was only down to 1030 so pitched a rehydrated packet of 34/70 and after another 5 days down to 1014 and not going any further. Tried clarifying three times but still very cloudy, taste test indicated infected!!! So ditched.

Thinking back I have previously (pre WW) had an infected Pilsner and in that brew I also used the Air Stone. There must be some bugs in the Air Stone, lines or Pump so that's the end of that equipment

The issue's were:- obviously a less than viable BUDVAR 2000 (in hind sight should have made a starter), under pitched (because smacked pack did not provide enough cells would have been less than 100 billion due to being 6 weeks since date of manufacturer), infection most likely from the air stone equipment somewhere

WW states Dry yeast equals approx. 200 Billion cells and Wyeast state 100 billion for "fresh yeast", Mr Malty indicates a Wyeast smack pack at 6 weeks old possibly only 30% viable cells

So the test of just smacking a Wyeast pack and pitching after it swells isn't a viable option. Will continue brewing with dry yeasts until I have more experience with what you can and can't achieve with the WW

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[Beerisyummy]

Took the Smack pack 36 hours to kick in, before pitching I aerated with an Air Stone, pitched yeast and took 36hrs to indicate any CO2 build up at 15C.......

Did the pack swell up when smacked?
I'm surprised it took 36 hours to kick off, although you never know how the pack had been treated. Going by my own experiences with liquid yeasts, I'd have a guess the pack had been stored warm for too long.

Personally, I'm a tight arse who makes several starters from each smackpack/vial, and even my earliest, under pitched attempts attenuated to a reasonable level after a sluggish start.
It really does sound like your yeast pack was totally stuffed.
Starting out at a slightly warmer temperature can help kick things off. You just need to make sure you cool it down as the growth phase accelerates. A similar action to using pressure in the fermenter.

I wouldn't discount liquid yeasts as a viable option so quickly Wobbly. There are some great varieties available that you won't get anywhere else.
It sure would be a shame to limit your options with the most important part of the beer!

If your interested, get your hands on a copy of http://www.amazon.com/Yeast-Practical-Fermentation-Brewing-Elements/dp/0937381969 and have a read.

Happy brewing!


PS.
Also, what sort of taste let you know the batch was infected?
The only sort of infections I've encountered have dropped the gravity below what was expected. I wasn't aware that an infection would keep the FG high.
I'm guessing if the infection turns out to be in the WW itself, you won't be ditching it along with the air stone. :lol:
If it is, it'll be interesting to see how hard it is to get rid of.

 

[roger mellie]

So the Mad science continues...

A stones Ruination Clone - the highlights of the recipe below.

View attachment 69647

I was kind of pushed for time post whirlpool and wanted to get it in the fermenter - maybe could have left it another 30 mins. Consequently there was a lot of hop material when I transferred to the WW.

Still trying to work out why I missed my OG by so much but its likely to do with close to 6KG of grain in the BM. Nevertheless - FG was 1.010 and after 3 clarifications it was clear (or unclear) that there was still a heap of hop matter preventing the colloidal agent from doing any more.

I had some choices

1.

 

[roger mellie]

So the Mad science continues...

A stones Ruination Clone - the highlights of the recipe below. (this is based on Ross's Recipe - cheers Rossco!)



I was kind of pushed for time post whirlpool and wanted to get it in the fermenter - maybe could have left it another 30 mins. Consequently there was a lot of hop material when I transferred to the WW.

Still trying to work out why I missed my OG by so much but its likely to do with close to 6KG of grain in the BM. Nevertheless - FG was 1.010 and after 3 clarifications it was clear (or unclear) that there was still a heap of hop matter preventing the colloidal agent from doing any more.

I had some choices

1. Leave it
2. Put some alternative fining agent in and leave it.
3. Use my filter and transfer from the WW to Keg via 1um filter (trying not to explode anything) - access how much carbonation was lost

Of course (impatient me) I chose #3 - the only solution that included mad science and use of CO2 in non pressure rated vessels.

A few pictures

The sample I poured yesterday that looked like yarra river water - after settling - clearly the beer was clear but the beer was well above the pick up point on the conical (just above the butterfly valve)

Everything was purged and the pressure equalised slowly to the fermenter pressure.



Open the Fermenter tap - with ~ 80 kPa head pressure the filter filled up to about half way



Using the old Spunding Valve to slowly create a differential pressure - I don't believe the gauge - it never read higher than 55 - and ~40 when the flow started - so I reckon about a 15kPa differential.



Didn't waste much - certainly could have kept going - but the keg was full!



Took about 30 minutes - first pour shows that the beer is still carbonated - on the low side but then again I fermenter under less pressure this time.



There was plenty of this clinging to conical walls - and in the sediment pot.



Flavour is excellent - as described "a celebration of the Centennial hop - fantastic orange marmalade and lifted zesty notes"

things to learn

1. Beers with high hop loads probably need a post filter - or at the very least a longer whirlpool
2. Use of the filter is simple with this system - I didn't blow up anything
3. whilst I wouldn't say that the beer has lost NO carbonation - I can put that back without too much problem

Becaause this was a closed circuit I assume that the majority of the CO2 that came out of suspension did so due to the temperature difference - maybe I could put the filter and the keg in the fridge for a couple of hours.

Will now dry hop in the corny for a week - and just leave it under serving pressure and any carbonation lost will top up during that process.

Onwards and upwards - something ~ 60 IBU's @ 1.050 next I think.

Cheers

RM

 

[wobbly]

Back in post #61 on 11/3/14 I posted that I thought the Pilsner was infected and subsequently I ditched it.

Well my latest brew (LCPA clone) exhibited similar clarity and taste issues.

This brew was chilled in the BM to 40C using an immersion coil before transferring to the WW and then cooling further to 23C and pitching the US-05 yeast and fermenting at 23C for 4 days and then chilled to 1C to drop out the yeast. I then carried out the first clarification prior to dumping the sediment bottle contents and then did the second clarification. After about 72 hours following this second clarification the beer was still very cloudy (muddy water look) and had what I would describe as a very bitter hop taste. Fermentation had finished as the SG was 1012

The beer that I poured to view and taste was left on the bench over night in disgust and when I looked at it next morning I could see that there was a distinct line of settlement (yeast/trub?) forming so I left it for a further 24 hours at room temperature and it fully settled out with about the bottom third of the glass being very cloudy/muddy and the top two thirds being clearer not brilliant but certainly a significant amount clearer

The contents of the sediment bottle on the WW was the same with a distinct layer in about two thirds of the bottle!!!!

I reread (not skip reading this time) the WW user manual and in particular appendix 8 and noted that it states. "It is possible to clarify a new sediment layer onto this naturally sedimented yeast, however we find that there is an undesirable reaction between the two that slows down the clarification process"

In discussion with Roger Meille he has always emptied the sediment bottle after the cold chill and before the first clarification phase and hasn't seen any of the issues I have experienced.

I have also had previous brews/beers that haven't exhibited "off" traits and as far as I recall with those beers I emptied the sediment bottle prior to clarification so clearly (no pun intended) to get clear beer one should follow the instructions!!!!!

Cheers

Wobbly

 

[wobbly]

What I didn't mention and maybe should have is if any one is contemplating using "colloidal silica dioxide" to settle the yeast/trub in a standard plastic fermenter or corney used as a fermenter then they may well see the same results that I have by allowing the "colloidal silica dioxide" to mix with the natural settling yeast

It appears that if you remove the natural settled yeast first and then add the "colloidal silica dioxide" there isn't an issue

Also after letting it settle out the beer was drinkable but not the best brew I have done. Had a slight astringent taste

Cheers

w3

 

[MastersBrewery]

Wobbly,
with US05 I have found when pitching even slightly high in temp, can cause off flavours, you might find initial pitch at say 16-17 then ramp up to your ferment temp may help reel this in a bit. I have taken into account the pressurisation, with this comment. Also as 05 is well known for it's diacetyl tendencies I'd probably look at holding off the crash chill an extra 6-12 hours.

I could be way off with ALL of the above, just my perspective having been impatient with it a few times and worn the consequences

 

[rehabs_for_quitters]

Just regarding the sediment bottle when reattaching it, does it get purged with CO2 or anything when you chuck it back on to minimise the O2 introduced?
sorry i'm too lazy to read the manual after a liquid lunch

 

[Dan Pratt]

I was kind of pushed for time post whirlpool and wanted to get it in the fermenter - maybe could have left it another 30 mins. Consequently there was a lot of hop material when I transferred to the WW.

just a little advice with the BM - I used to whirlpool, chill then add to the FV. Heavy Hopped beers like the Ruination, that additional 30mins would have prevented most of that trub/hop debris. I now use a this method ( as used by many ) ;

• Whirlpool @ end of boil with WP hop additions for X mins with pump and wort return
• Add Immersion Chiller cool to <40c
• remove immersion chiller & manually whirlpool ( with santized stirrer )to get a good whirlpool happening
• replace lid and leave for 30mins ( cleanup commences )

SInce i started this additional whirlpool after chilling - the wort is very very clear going into the FV.

 

[roger mellie]

just a little advice with the BM - I used to whirlpool, chill then add to the FV. Heavy Hopped beers like the Ruination, that additional 30mins would have prevented most of that trub/hop debris. I now use a this method ( as used by many ) ;

• Whirlpool @ end of boil with WP hop additions for X mins with pump and wort return
• Add Immersion Chiller cool to <40c
• remove immersion chiller & manually whirlpool ( with santized stirrer )to get a good whirlpool happening
• replace lid and leave for 30mins ( cleanup commences )

SInce i started this additional whirlpool after chilling - the wort is very very clear going into the FV.

Cheers Pratty

I have been using a CFWC for chilling but I think you are right - an immersion chiller might be a better bet for certain beers.

I am kind of resigned to changing a few things next time I do a bigger beer. I think no chilling is top of that list.

RM

 

[roger mellie]

Just regarding the sediment bottle when reattaching it, does it get purged with CO2 or anything when you chuck it back on to minimise the O2 introduced?
sorry i'm too lazy to read the manual after a liquid lunch

Yep - you fill the sediment bottle from the beer tap (pushed backwards to max out the foam (hence CO2)

I also pre purge the sediment bottle with CO2 before I do this.

Cheers

RM

 

[Dan Pratt]

Cheers Pratty

I have been using a CFWC for chilling but I think you are right - an immersion chiller might be a better bet for certain beers.

I am kind of resigned to changing a few things next time I do a bigger beer. I think no chilling is top of that list.

RM

I'm actually changing to a CFC and probably do away with the IC. I can run the wort to the pump, into the CFC and return to the boil kettle for whirlpool for the WP additions and when its time for cooling turn on the water and leave the whirlpool running, when chilled the pump can be turned off and the 30mins countdown start. Meanwhile the lid is on and no need to remove/add/remove IC from wort.

 

[Elz]

Hi again fellow brewers
I am planning on filling a growler using the WW counter pressure bottler (cpb). However the nozzle is a tad too small, meaning that the seal is not 100%. Have others tried to use the cpb to fill a growler and if so what has been the work around? I am thinking of adding a piece of rubber above the nozzle? Or just filling really slowing after purging with CO2. Also planning on dry hopping in a few days. In order to reduce the risk of infection i was thinking of adding boiling water to the sediment bottling, containing the hops in a hop sock weighted with some marbles. Thereby sanitising/ killing any bacteria. Then topping up with foam and leaving for 4-5 days. Does this sound logical?
Beers are getting better by the brew, fantastic machine giving constantly good results.
Cheers
Elz

 

[Cervantes]

Hi,

I've been reading this with interest.

One thing that hasn't been documented here, with regard the operation of the WW, is how easy is it to clean?

Is there some form of "Clean In Place" function? Or does everything need to be disassembled, cleaned and then sanitised before use?

 

[Mr. No-Tip]

Hi,

I've been reading this with interest.

One thing that hasn't been documented here, with regard the operation of the WW, is how easy is it to clean?

Is there some form of "Clean In Place" function? Or does everything need to be disassembled, cleaned and then sanitised before use?

My understanding is that Ian Williams comes over and cleans it for you.

 

[Cervantes]

My understanding is that Ian Williams comes over and cleans it for you.

You don't get sort of service from Speidel...............

 

[Elz]

Pretty easy to clean, once you get the knack. Rinse/wash with water to get rid of the krausen residue, wash with detergent: FV and beer lines (lines under pressure to force through detergent) and sanitise, again lines under pressure. Takes me about 30 minutes. Normally clean whilst grains are steeping. Strip the tap back every third brew and give it a good clean also. Occasionally wipe down the exterior.
cheers Elz

 

[Cervantes]

Thanks for that.

A couple more questions if you don't mind.

It the conical fermenter section jacketed?

How is the temperature controlled?

 

[Elz]

You don't get sort of service from Speidel...............

Probably a marriage made in heaven, but I doubt if the marital bliss would include Mrs. Speidel cleaning the WW

 

[wobbly]

Hi Cevantes

Answers to a couple of your questions as far as my knowledge/understanding of the WW workings/controls go. Others may have a different /better answer and I welcome being corrected if the following isn't 100%

The fermentation chamber is insulated.

The bottom cone section is jacketed and is where the chilled glycol is continuously pumped around whilst ever the WW is switched on

The glycol tank has a temperature sensor that controls the refrigeration side which starts and stops as required to maintain the glycol within the set point range

The unit is fitted with an Omron ESCC Omron temperature controller which you adjust manually to the temperature you wish to maintain the fermentation chamber at within +/- 1.0C. You maybe able to refine this band width I just haven't bothered to follow up to see how much finer the control can be set. So if you wanted to control the fermentation chamber at say 23C max then you would set the Omron at 22C and it would then control the temperature of the glycol tank between 22C (refrigeration ON) and 23C( refrigeration OFF)

Trust this answers your questions

Cheers

Wobbly